Plan of Salvation

I am new here, so please forgive me if my understanding of certain phraseology is not up to par, but the verse you are quoting (Romans 1:16) seems to say just the opposite of what you appear to be promoting.

It says that God has power concerning salvation ["for it is the power of God unto salvation"](meaning that He provided for us a means of salvation in Jesus Christ), but man has the choice of believing or not ["to every one that believeth"](in Christ, the means of salvation that He provided).

Therefore, it is evidence FOR free will, not against it.

Pastor Mark.

 

I am new here, so please forgive me if my understanding of certain phraseology is not up to par, but the verse you are quoting (Romans 1:16) seems to say just the opposite of what you appear to be promoting.

It says that God has power concerning salvation ["for it is the power of God unto salvation"](meaning that He provided for us a means of salvation in Jesus Christ), but man has the choice of believing or not ["to every one that believeth"](in Christ, the means of salvation that He provided).

Therefore, it is evidence FOR free will, not against it.

Pastor Mark. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Perhaps reading the OP on the thread Spurgeon on Faith and Regeneration will help you understand.

 

Of course I would recommend any of these two books instead:

http://www.baptistfire.com/books/calvinism.shtml

 

The Arminianism of the so-called Roman Road would be anathema to the Apostle Paul. </font>[/QUOTE]Sure. That's why Paul risked his life and limb to get out the Gospel to every creature because he was a Calvinist who believed that they all would be saved anyway with or without him. Rom. 10:14 </font>[/QUOTE]Your understanding of the Gospel is lacking. Please note how Paul defines the Gospel.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Please note that Paul states that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, not the free choice of man unto Salvation. </font>[/QUOTE]Now PastorMark was quite correct to point out that you left off the part about man having to believe the Gospel. God does not violate Man's man will concerning this.

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Josh. 24:15

 

JackTUS

I don't call you a heretic because you incorrectly believe that man not God is sovereign in Salvation so please don't infer that I am one [ref: above web site] because I believe God is Sovereign in Salvation.

 

Where did any Calvinist say that God violates man's will?

 

The Arminianism of the so-called Roman Road would be anathema to the Apostle Paul. </font>[/QUOTE]Sure. That's why Paul risked his life and limb to get out the Gospel to every creature because he was a Calvinist who believed that they all would be saved anyway with or without him. Rom. 10:14 </font>[/QUOTE]Your understanding of the Gospel is lacking. Please note how Paul defines the Gospel.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Please note that Paul states that the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, not the free choice of man unto Salvation. </font>[/QUOTE]Now PastorMark was quite correct to point out that you left off the part about man having to believe the Gospel. God does not violate Man's man will concerning this.

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Josh. 24:15 </font>[/QUOTE]John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Ephesians 1:3-7
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Notice, if you care to learn the truth of Scripture, that Jesus Christ said He Chose, not His disciples. Also notice that God through the Apostle Paul tells us that He chose us before the foundation of the world and predestinated us unto the adoption of children according to HIS WILL, not according to our will.

 

You left out the most important part... IN HIM. All who are "in Christ" are those chosen.

 

You left out the most important part... IN HIM. All who are "in Christ" are those chosen. </font>[/QUOTE]webdog

If you will carefully read you will learn not only what I wrote but what Scripture teaches. You will note that in my quote of Ephesians 1:3-7 I highlighted the words chosen in him.

You are getting close to Scriptural truth when you state: "All who are 'in Christ' are those chosen." I agree that all who are "in Chirit" are those chosen. You seem to at least understand that the saved are chosen. However, Scripture teaches that only those who are chosen will, in God's own time, be "in Christ".

There is a passage of Scripture that clearly teaches what you apparently are unwilling to believe.

John 1:11-13
11. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

You might also read with an open mind the words of Jesus Christ ito Nicodemus in John 3:3-8

3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Notice that Jesus Christ does not tell Nicodemus that he must believe before he is born again. Rather He tells Nicodemus that this rebirth is the work of the Holy Spirit, consistent with the teaching of Paul in Ephesians 2:1-10. But of course since both passages have the same author that is to be expected.

Notice also in John 3:8 that Jesus Christ states: The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Now if this rebirth were the result of man's faith he would be aware of its cause. So who are we to believe, those who believe that man is sovereign in Salvation or the words of Jesus Christ?