Jesus Repudiates the Mariolatry Volume III

Annsni,

I work night shift. Not 3rd, but 2nd. So, I get home from work at around 1:00 am or so and am usually up until around 5 to 6AM. I then sleep until about noon or 1PM

The wee hours of the night...1:00AM to about 6 AM...are my favorite hours of the day. I love those hours. Its a wonderful time to be up and at leisure. And Walmart is open all night if I need to shop.

Thats why I'm up!

Mike

 

DHK said...

And annsi said...

Saw what? What happened?

Mike

 

D2,

ann saw that GW was banned. Pray what we shared with her will be enough to cause her to study for herself instead of believing lies told by the Catholic Church.

 

SFIC,

Well, I'm sorry to hear that. I too hope that we at least planted some seeds that someone else will water, and then come to fruition someday.

What was she banned for?

Mike

 

not sure.

I am sure the Mods and Administrators had good reason. Probably because she never changed her profile to reflect a Church and the way she bashed those who did not pray to Mary.

 

I seem to remember her multi-posting a couple of times as well.

Mike

 

Forgive me for back-tracking a little bit, but I am still confused about this.

There seems to have been a post or two that indicate this is indeed disputable among baptists. I would love to see a poll, but don't know how to set one up.

My experience with baptists (mostly the southern variety) would certainly disagree with this. I am curious as to what the numbers would be?

 

Thank you for your response DHK. I have added this to my list of scriptures to work through when I have a moment.

 

I have a question regarding the idea that Mary must be omni-present in order to hear multitudes of prayers. (I think I've also seen omniscient used in the same lines).

Certainly Mary is not omni-present nor omniscient. I am not sure I would agree that being able to hear the prayers of multitudes would require these qualities however.

It seems to me that we are putting physical, human limitations on a spirit. Those of us who are in need of physical attributes to hear (2 ears) certainly have limitations in this area. But it's not clear to me that these types of limitations would occur in a pure spirit.

Nonetheless, if this is true, then how was Rachel able to be aware of the slaughering of the innocents by Herod? Matthew 2:17-18 says that "Then what was said through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled: 'A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more.'"

Also, when you look back at the prophecy in Jeremiah, the Lord says "Restrain your voice from weeping and your eyes from tears, for your work will be rewarded," declares the Lord. "They will return from the land of the enemy. So there is hope for your future," declares the Lord. "Your children will return to their own land. "

This seems to be an example of someone who is dead (Rachel) very aware of something that is happening to a large group of people (weren't there around 2000 innocent children slaughtered?), and her 'work' of intercession with the Lord is promised to be rewarded.

 

In Jeremiah 31, Rahel was mournful and lamented for her children who were taken into captivity.

In Matthew, Rachel is only a representation of every woman who had her male child age 2 and under slain. Not Jacob's wife herself.

 

J. R. Graves did believe this at one point, I don't think he convinced as many Baptists of this as he did of landmarkism:wavey:

You may do a search online and read his works as well as works refuting his arguments.

bro. Dallas:wavey:

 

I was not aware that the fulfillment of a prophecy is simply a representation.

Nonetheless, based on your interpretation, in Jeremiah 31 where Rachel is mourning and lamenting her children taken into captivity -- this is still several hundred years after the death of Rachel, correct? So I would still ask how this could be, if Rachel is capable of mourning the captivity of the thousands of her descendants?

 

Jeremiah 30:7

Jeremiah 30:7 speaks of Jacob's trouble. Is this his personally? Or is this speaking collectively? If it is his personally, then death does not separate us from trouble?

bro. Dallas:wavey:

 

It would be my opinion that the term Jacob and Israel are often used inter-changeably to refer to the nation of Israel.

I see no such explanation for Rachel.

 

My Opinion

:smilewinkgrin:

my opinion is different.

Rachel represents the then living mothers weeping for their (her) children and her people while Jacob's trouble represents the time of Israel's national trouble.

Same concept.

bro. Dallas:wavey:

 

Has anyone considered...

...that MAYBE Mary was still beneath her "age of accountability" when she conceived Jesus?? And THAT is why she was the perfect INNOCENT "vessel" for the birthing of our Savior???

skypair

 

It's not difficult. I just don't see it as an either/or as you do.

Paul describes in the 12th chapter of Hebrews the difference between the way we as Christians approach God and that of the OT. He references in the OT that God was not approachable, a mountain that could not be touched.

We're then told that as Christians, that we "have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel."

Right there in between approaching God as judge, and Jesus as mediator, we see we also come to 'the spirits of righteous men made perfect'. While I do indeed have a personal relationship with Jesus, I do not see it as being conducted 1;1, but rather in the presence of the heavenly Jerusalem. I do not see it as being "me and Jesus" separate from the body of Christ.

I don't pray to a saint, or Mary instead of God. I pray with them to God. We're all there. People seem to think if you include Mary or others in your prayers, you're taking away time from God. I simply see it as joining with other members of the communion of saints in the heavenly Jerusalem where Jesus is the mediator, they are fellow members of the body of Christ, and all our prayers are to God.

 

I would perhaps be able to consider that question if somebody could point me to the place in the Bible where it discusses an 'age of accountability'?