Who else believes this

He is saying that the law must be used to be successful in evangelism. I disagree.

It is our lives which draw people to Christ, or push them away. Not the law. "Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?" Romans 2:4

There are so many false conversions because so many are the response to emotional hype or the desire for 'fire insurance' from hell. There is persecution of Christians in this country of the USA, but it is not the physical persecution other countries have. There is an intellectual persecution which has to do with mockery about believing the Bible. People hate to be mocked and not accepted; thus there is a strong movement away from Bible and toward the sort of social gospel which makes everyone feel good. This is not the life-changing experience real Christianity demands and gives, but it has many, many comfortable Christians deceived.

Real Christians -- true conversions -- are the stuff of which the world makes jokes. What we believe is the subject of ridicule by many, including many false Christians.

But it still is not law which makes evangelism a success. There are plenty of laws. It is the truth about one's heart and one's reaction to that truth which determines whether or not one is able to accept the death of self which true conversion requires. If the unsaved person does not see a difference in the life of the Christian which he wants to see in his own life, he will not be impelled to the desire to give up the life he has for another one.

 

A little extra: when Jesus talked about the law, it was to those who were depending on the law for salvation. "What must I do to be saved?" etc. "I have kept the law..."

If one is depending on oneself for salvation, then the law is all one has with which to justify oneself. And one will always therefore fail.

 

No greater mistake can be made that to suppose that preaching the law is just Old Testament preaching: it is no less the law of Christ,Mt.5:17.

Brutus

 

Well, Christ only came to save sinners so if it takes the law to make one realize they are a sinner then fine use the law. But to say that those not saved under the "threat" of the law aren't able to be "maintained" as Christians then I disagree with this idea.

Now I agree that we have too many "easy-believism" religious sects that tend to worry about numbers. I pray more Churches will worry about discipleship and grow from within instead of trying to reach more numbers and forget those already in the pews.

 

The Law is the SchoolMaster that brings us to Christ! See--thats the problem with our society---we don't want law---so with no law to point our way----no one "appears" lost---and Jesus came to seek and to save those who are lost!!

 

What is this "the law" which you speak of?

 

Romans says the law makes us aware of sin. Once a person has a true conversion experience, a life changing relationship with Jesus Christ, it seems to me that the Holy Spirit living in me can make me aware of the law, and lead me to become more like Christ. The Spirit reproves, convicts, etc. I will rely on the Spirit to guide me as a Christian, not someone reciting the ten commandments to me.

 

But can you break the Ten Commandments after you're saved and stay saved or do you have to start all over? Because if the law is what convicted you to be saved then why send the Holy Spirit? Just as a Comforter and not as a Convicter?

It is interesting that this "saved by the law" is still a discussion amongst Christians...did not the first saved Gentiles and the Jews argue these same things in the first Churches? And I think if you read Deuteronomy you'll find that there is a lot more to the Law than 10 Commandments.

I'm glad that I'm Saved by Grace and Kept by Faith (Yes, I have to pray Lord Help thou my Unbelief, at times) but I'm confident of my Blessed Hope...all of this is without the law forcing me to Christ.

 

Without the Law there would be no sin but you have to make sure what Law you are referring to. "There are those who desire to be teachers of the law and know not what they say nor do they understand that the Law is not for the righteous but for the sinner and the ungodly for the righteous of the Law is fullfilled in us by His Grace. The Law is the deepest subject in the Bible and it would take several pages to really explain the Law (Ten Commandments). There are other Laws such as the Law of Sacrifice, Law of Circumcism but sin is to transgress the Commandments. I often ask, (which Commandment can you be still committing and be a Christian). Can you be in the act of adultry and be a Christian, I don't think so but will the Law save you, no it will not but it will bring you to Christ.

 

Helen said:

It is our lives which draw people to Christ, or push them away. Not the law. "Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?" Romans 2:4

And why does Paul say that God is kind, tolerant, and patient? Because men have broken his laws and offended him personally, and he has forborne destroying humanity where it stands for the offense. That is the very point of the first three chapters of Romans.

If the unsaved person does not see a difference in the life of the Christian which he wants to see in his own life, he will not be impelled to the desire to give up the life he has for another one.

And what is the "unsaved person" unsaved from? What does the kindness of God lead to repentance from? Inferior quality of life outside of Christ? No! Sin. And sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4).

Telling people that the Christian life is more desirable than the pagan life is not the gospel of salvation.

 

No greater mistake can be made than that the preaching of the law is applicable in the New Testament church! I'd get my hat in a hurry if I attended a church where they preached the law. The Pauline Epistles are sufficient in demonstrating the plan of salvation.

 

Christ did, Paul did and others. If you don't want to call it the Law so be it but a child of God is not a liar, stealer, adulterer or still breaking any of the other ten. And yes the ten Commandments are the Law of The Commandments, not were.

[ March 12, 2006, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]

 

The ten commandments were "the law"? Really?