Unfinished Business

BRAIN: From the first sip, alcohol is absorbed into the bloodstream and reaches the brain. Although you won't be aware of it, there is an impairment of brain function.

I wonder how many on here have seen families destroyed by the use of acohol.

The problem is, if one small drink effects the brain, then the next drink is much easier to take, then the next and the next. Truth will stand when the world is on fire. I do not want to be on record "defending" the drinking of acohol in any manner. I remember when I was told, "well its ok to social drink, and before the evening was out we were knocking each others brains out". Social drinking my foot.

Let the rest do as they may, as for me and my house I will get "high" on the Spirit of the Lord.

BBob,

 

This may be true for some, but it isn't true for me.
I can only drink so much and I have had all I care for.

If you can't prove your point Sola Scriptura Then you can't bind other Christians into keeping YOUR rule.

I sure don't deny the effects of alcohol on the body.
But what some can't seem to remember is that a moderate amount CAN be a good thing. It can cheer. The Bible puts this in a positive light.

BUt againl, the most important part of all of this is the pull to legalism and the improper use of scripture.

I don't care whether you drink or not.
YOu have CHristian liberty to abstain.
But you do not have Christian liberty to add to the Bible.

 

If it harms the body, even if you "cheer", it is sin, and that is scripture.

So, now come back with overeating or something. Two wrongs don't make a right.

BBob,

 

PLease show me one reference that states that the moderate use of wine is a sin.
Thanks

 

Alcohol can affect your body in the following ways: * Alcohol increases the acid in your stomach. The irritating effects of alcohol may cause gastritis (inflammation of the lining of the stomach), pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas), or a peptic ulcer (a raw area in the lining of the stomach or intestines). Alcohol can also damage your small intestine and keep it from absorbing nutrients. * Alcohol can keep you from getting deep sleep, which may mean a less restful nights sleep. Also, drinking alcohol can make insomnia worse. Although it may help you go to sleep, when the drink wears off you may wake up earlier. You may also wake up more often to urinate. * Alcohol can cause gout because it can keep your body from getting rid of uric acid. Gout is a buildup of uric acid that causes inflammation in your joints.

1Cr 3:17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

Are you sure you are not defiling the temple? It may not show now, but later in life, it could show in many ways, cancer, liver damage.

It is a proven fact that one sip, begins to affect the brain. What if you run over a kid. Will you always wonder about that sip?

Drink if you want. I made the statement that in no way did I want to be held accountable for upholding acohol in any way.


1Cr 6:18Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body

Same is true with acohol, if it defiles the body.

Do you drink in the sanctuary? If not, why? Oh, I know, we use real wine in the communion, so that means its ok to drink acohol.

This is how I live. You are free to do whatever you like. Drink all you want, let your children see you drink, they will copy you.

1Ti 5:14I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

If you do, then you sin.

BBob,:thumbs:

 

That is patently false. Did you read the article linked in mcdirector's post?

 

The Word of God says "Look not upon the wine when it is red...". Why in the world would any Christian take modern day Scientists word over God's Holy Word.


Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Yea, hath God said...?

 

Thank you mcdirector;
One of the best articles I ever read on the subject.

BBob,

 

That is not all it will kill;

There were 16,885 alcohol-related fatalities in 2005 – 39 percent of the total traffic fatalities for the year.

BBob,

 

The word wine in the Bible is a generic term; sometimes it means grape juice; sometimes it means alcoholic beverages. The following verses prove that the word "wine" can mean fresh grape juice, the fruit of the vine:

Deuteronomy 11:14 That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.

2 Chronicles 31:5 And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.

Nehemiah 13:15 In those days saw I in Judah some treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day: and I testified against them in the day wherein they sold victuals.

Proverbs 3:10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

Isaiah 16:10 And gladness is taken away, and joy out of the plentiful field; and in the vineyards there shall be no singing, neither shall there be shouting: the treaders shall tread out no wine in their presses; I have made their vintage shouting to cease.

Isaiah 65:8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

The word "wine" in these verse all mean "unfermented/fresh grape juice/fruit of the vine".

The word "wine" in today's English always means "fermented/alcoholic". The wine which is drunk today is NOT the same as the wine of biblical times. Today's wine is more like "strong drink"...therefore, to apply today's meaning of wine to the wine in biblical times is incorrect. Unless you KNOW for CERTAIN that the wine you are drinking is the SAME wine Jesus created and which was used in biblical times, what is your reason for drinking "in moderation"?

 

Ok, let’s weight this out....


There are over 75 bible verses which discourage, condemn, or warn us about the use of alcohol. This is more scripture than will be found on the subject of lying, adultery, swearing, Sabbath-breaking, pride, cheating, stealing, hypocrisy or even blasphemy.

A few verses which command abstinance-(My list, there is probably many more)

1 Timothy 3:2-3
1 Timothy 3:8
Leviticus 10:9
Proverbs 23:29-35
Numbers 6:3
Jeremiah 35:2-8


So with 75 negative bible verses regarding wine, including over 6 verses (I know of offhand) verses which command abstinence, where are the commands to drink moderately?

In fact, wasn't Israel condemned for forcing Nazarites to drink wine in Amos 2:12? (Yes, I know about the vow but if we are commanded not to drink, as it certainly appears that way, what are the ramifications for folks who promote moderate alcohol intake?)

Sounds like some serious ramifications could be in order for the promoting of alcoholic beverages onto another person as ok vs no ramifications for the latter.

 

75 WARNINGS​

There is more Scripture condemning the use of alcoholic beverages than will be found on the subjects of lying, adultery, swearing, cheating, hypocrisy, pride, or even blasphemy.​

1) Genesis 9:20-26 - Noah became drunk; the result was immorality and family trouble.​

2) Genesis 19:30-38 - Lot was so drunk he did not know what he was doing; this led to immorality​

3) Leviticus 10:9-11 - God commanded priests not to drink so that they could tell the difference between the holy and the unholy.​

4) Numbers 6:3 - The Nazarites were told to eat or drink nothing from the grape vine.​

5) Deuteronomy 21:20 - A drunken son was stubborn and rebellious.​

6) Deuteronomy 29:5-6 - God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.​

7) Deuteronomy 32:33 - Intoxicating wine is like the poison of serpents, the cruel venom of asps.​

8) Judges 13:4, 7, 14 - Samson was to be a Nazarite for life. His mother was told not to drink wine or strong drink.​

9) 1 Samuel 1:14-15 - Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.​

10) 1 Samuel 25:32-38 - Nabal died after a drunken spree.​

11) 2 Samuel 11:13 - By getting Uriah drunk, David hoped to cover his sin.​

12) 2 Samuel 13:28-29 - Amnon was drunk when he was killed.​

13) 1 Kings 16:8-10 - The king was drinking himself into drunkenness when he was assassinated​

14) 1 Kings 20:12-21 - Ben-Hadad and 32 other kings were drinking when they were attacked and defeated by the Israelites.​

15) Esther 1:5-12 - The king gave each one all the drink he wanted. The king was intoxicated when he commanded the queen to come.​

16) Psalm 75:8 - The Lord’s anger is pictured as mixed wine poured out and drunk by the wicked.​

17) Proverbs 4:17 - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.​

18) Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.​

19) Proverbs 23:19-20 - A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.​

20) Proverbs 23:21 - Drunkenness causes poverty.​

21) Proverbs 23:29-30 - Drinking causes woe, sorrow, fighting, babbling, wounds without cause and red eyes.​

22) Proverbs 23:31 - God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.​

23) Proverbs 23:32 - Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.​

24) Proverbs 23:33 - Alcohol causes the drinker to have strange and adulterous thoughts, produces willfulness, and prevents reformation.​

25) Proverbs 23:34 - Alcohol makes the drinker unstable​

26) Proverbs 23:35 - Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning. Alcohol is habit forming.​

27) Proverb 31:4-5 - Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.​

28) Proverbs 31:6-7 - Strong drink could be given to those about to perish or those in pain. Better anesthetics are available today.​

29) Ecclesiastes 2:3 - The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not. (Ecclesiastes 12:8)​

30) Ecclesiastes 10:17 - A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.​

31) Isaiah 5:11-12 - Woe to those who get up early to drink and stay up late at night to get drunk.​

32) Isaiah 5:22 - Woe to "champion" drinkers and "experts" at mixing drinks.​

33) Isaiah 19:14 - Drunken men stagger in their vomit.​

34) Isaiah 22:12-13 - The Israelites choose to drink; their future looks hopeless to them.​

35) Isaiah 24:9 - Drinkers cannot escape the consequences when God judges.​

36) Isaiah 28:1 - God pronounces woe on the drunkards of Ephraim.​

37) Isaiah 28:3 - Proud drunkards shall be trodden down.​

38) Isaiah 28:7 - Priests and prophets stagger and reel from beer and wine, err in vision, and stumble in judgment.​

39) Isaiah 28:8 - Drinkers’ tables are covered with vomit and filth.​

40) Isaiah 56:9-12 - Drinkers seek their own gain and expect tomorrow to be just like today.​

41) Jeremiah 35:2-14 - The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.​

42) Ezekiel 44:21 - Again God instructed the priests not to drink wine.​

43) Daniel 1:5-17 - Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.​

44) Daniel 5:1 - Belshazzar, ruler of Babylon; led his people in drinking.​

45) Daniel 5:2-3 - The king, along with his nobles, wives, and concubines, drank from the goblets which had been taken from God’s temple.​

46) Daniel 5:4 - Drinking wine was combined with praising false gods.​

47) Daniel 5:23 - God sent word to Belshazzar that punishment would be swift for the evil he had committed.​

48) Hosea 4:11 - Intoxicating wine takes away intelligence.​

49) Hosea 7:5 - God reproves princes for drinking.​

50) Joel 1:5 - Drunkards awake to see God’s judgment.​

51) Joel 3:3 - The enemy is judged for selling girls for wine.​

52) Amos 2:8 - Unrighteous acts of Israel included the drinking of wine which had been taken for the payment of fines.​

53) Amos 2:12 - Israel is condemned for forcing Nazarites to drink wine.​

54) Micah 2:11 - Israelites are eager to follow false teachers who prophesy plenty of intoxicating drinks.​

55) Nahum 1:10 - The drunkards of Nineveh will be destroyed by God.​

56) Habakkuk 2:5 - A man is betrayed by wine.​

57) Habakkuk 2:15 - Woe to him that gives his neighbor drink.​

58) Habakkuk 2:16 - Drinking leads to shame.​

59) Matthew 24:48-51 - A drinking servant is unprepared for his Lord’s return.​

60) Luke 1:15 - John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine.​

61) Luke 12:45 - Christ warned against drunkenness.​

62) Luke 21:34 - Drunkenness will cause a person not to be ready for the Lord’s return.​

63) Romans 13:13 - Do not walk in drunkenness or immorality.​

64) Romans 14:21 - Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.​

65) 1 Corinthians 5:11 - If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.​

66) 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God​

67) Galatians 5:21 - Acts of the sinful nature, such as drunkenness, will prohibit a person from inheriting the kingdom of God.​

68) Ephesians 5:18 - In contrast to being drunk with wine, the believer is to be filled with the Spirit.​

69) 1 Thessalonians 5:6-7 - Christians are to be alert and self-controlled, belonging to the day. Drunkards belong to the night and darkness.​

70) 1 Timothy 3:2-3 - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.​

71) 1 Timothy 3:8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.​

72) 1 Timothy 3:11 - Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.​

73) Titus 1:7-8 - An overseer is to be disciplined.​

74) Titus 2:2-3 - The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.​

75) 1 Peter 4:3-4 - The past life of drunkenness and carousing has no place in the Christian’s life.​

-- Signal Press, Evanston Illinois
​

 

Post us the link to the sources like mcdirector did---can you do that???

 

"Temple" here is not the believer's body--Paul is using it to describe the church. Destroying the temple doesn't mean drinking alcohol, it means creating divisions in the church by following man, rather than who they should have been focusing on, Jesus.

After the clear teaching of the verse you posted, how do you then contradict it? "Every sin that a man doeth is without the body, " except fornication--period. What you then proceeded to say was in essense, "alcohol is also a sin against the body." Doesn't that add to God's word?

 

What is the point of posting a deluge of verses that are against drunkenness? No one here is advocating getting drunk. If you want to weed out the verses that you feel answer the original question, which was along the lines of, "which verses condemn moderate drinking?" and post those only, it would be appreciated.

"Not near any wine"? The verse says, "drunkenness". You can be near wine without getting drunk. Changing the word of God with subtlety might make your position look better, but trust me, it's not worth it.

 

If acohol harms the body, then it is a sin, period.

1Cr 6:13Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body [is] not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

I know these scriptures are not talking about alcohol, but if alcohol brings on these sins, then it is sin.

How do you worship God under the influence?? Many people have said that "one" drink does not effect them, but that has been proven to be false. I watched where they tested several in driving a car before and after the drink. It was quite obvious that it did effect the brain of all of them, and they all said it would not.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003095355_drunk30m.html

BBob,

 

The article that annsni referred to, "
Red Wine And Grape Juice Help Defend Against Food-borne Diseases, Study Suggests"

says that Grape Juice helps defend against food borne diseases as well as red wine. As I said previously, the Word of God says "Look not upon the wine when it is red...". Why in the world would any Christian take modern day Scientists word over God's Holy Word?

Since grape juice helps defend against food borne disease, why opt for that which God's Word clearly tells us to not have experience with?

Why choose a grape juice with poison when one can drink unfermented grape juice?

Seeing grape juice has been proven to have defensive properties strengthens my stance that Paul would not have prescribed alcohol for Timothy's stomach problems.

 

But the fresh grape juice inevitably became fermented very quickly. Therefore, the “wine” discussed here is pressed grape juice that rapidly ferments unless refrigerated. Since they did not have refrigeration, the implication is that the Hebrews fermented the grape juice in a controlled process to make alcoholic wine. Otherwise the juice would be ruined and lost.

Unless they had an oil well on their property, the oil God is talking about was created through a process of pressing oil bearing crops, such as olives. Therefore, God is not literally talking about unprocessed crops, but processed crops.

Same issue as above. Except that the wine is probably already fermented at this time. This offering was performed after the work of the harvest has been completed.

I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here. This verse makes a distinction between grapes and wine. If you are trying to point out that the equipment was named a “wine press”, I submit to you that we call places winerys even though they have fresh grapes in the vine, grape juice in the presses and fermented alcoholic wine in bottles because the product they are creating is alcoholic wine.

Yes, new wine is wine that has not yet aged properly. It is a picture of plenty because it is stored up for the future when it will be probably fermented.

Lack of wine is a sign of the disfavor of God.

I don’t get your point. If you want wine, you have to start with grapes. Unless you have a cluster of grapes, you won’t have grape wine at all.

This does not “prove” anything about ‘wine’ being grape juice... Unless you are already predisposed to believing that Christians never drank alcoholic wine.

That’s an assertion without evidence. I strongly disagree.

This is another assertion without evidence.

Like the “strong drink” that God commends?

Deuteronomy 14:24-26 (King James Version)

24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:

25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:

26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household...

If you believe what the Bible teaches, you must admit that God commends the moderate use of “strong drink”.

And if you have enough faith to accept what God instructs there, then your whole argument falls apart.

Because God allows it, Jesus demonstrated it, and the church has practiced it consistently for most of 2000 years.

What is your biblical justification for condemning what God has said is a blessing?

 

Grape juice has to go through a process that includes adding sugar and yeast, then sealing it airproof for some time, to make it into alcoholic wine. It's not like you can just leave the juice sitting around and it will become alcoholic. It will just spoil in that case. And its also very easy to make juice and seal it so that it will not spoil or ferment, no matter how long it sits.

love,

Sopranette