House of merchandise

I'm a little confused. Didn't you just tell me not to interpret your posts, but to take your words at face value?

Without going into the minutia of the literary offenses in the above paragraph, let me simply answer your main point. "All day every day" and "24/7" are employed literally as often, if not more than, figuratively. The sense depends wholly upon the context.

When you say that worship is something that you should do "24/7" and "all day everyday," and insist that it is something we "should do" even in the menial tasks of "going to market" and "trimming the verge," you aren't exactly inviting us to consider the phrases as hyperbole. Now plug your treatment of 1Thess. 5:17 into that hodgepodge, and what's a fella to think?

I think I'll bow out until you can decide on the concise "face value" wording of your ideas. :wavey:

 

Excellent comments, Dr. Ketchum! :thumbs:

 

Um, you do realize he is disagreeing with you here, don't you? You said in post #13, "Where Christ is in the midst of two or more that have come together to worship, one also bringing his sales items is at best, indecent."

 

Yes. But you haven't yet.

Perhaps you should bow out until you can learn to interpret what I say literally.

Have a good Sunday.

 

And how is that different from what he said?

 

How is it not?? He says it's okay to sell things at church if they are uplifting to believers and not merchandizing, but you say it's "at best indecent" to bring sales items to church--at least it sure looked that way.

I've been arguing that it is okay to sell things under the auspices of a church based on my understanding of "church" and "worship," and you've been disagreeing with me all the way. What is that about if we are not on opposite sides in this debate?

 

I've been meaning as well to say thanks to Dr. Ketchum for this post. Dr. Ketchum knows probably better than anyone on the BB why I've been vociferous on this thread.

My grandfather, Dr. John R. Rice, who Dr. Ketchum knew, used to set up his book table in the lobby of the churches where he preached. He would sell at a discount his books with such wonderful titles as, "Prayer: Asking and Receiving; Heaven; The Soul Winner's Fire and 200 other books and pamphlets he had written.

Christians were fired up for the Lord, sinners were saved and pastors were encouraged. You could pick up a hundred of his 40 million seller tract "What Must I Do to Be Saved?" and get started witnessing right away.

At Bible colleges, he would set up the table and sell his books at 50% off to the students, and here and there just give them away.

As a little boy of about 7, I helped him at his book table for the first time (did it many times), and as a reward he gave me The Soul Winner's Fire, one of the best books on the subject ever--it's been translated into Japanese and other languages. It was such a blessing to me!

Many Christians have told me how they were blessed by Grandad's books--often bought in the lobby of their church. How sad it would be if this avenue of blessing were closed. :type:

Edited in: P. S. John R. Rice was not merchandizing. He never took a single penny from the books he sold, but it all went right back into God's work. I've heard him say, "Millions of dollars have passed through these hands, but praise the Lord, none of it stuck!"

 

The "Hoppers" ,the singing group, made me very proud of them one day. After attending with their concerts, and with a light rain falling they still set up outside of the church to sell their tapes. I was very impressed with this. And I distinctly remember my mother being a staunch advocate of not selling anything within the church.

 

The church is a building?

 

That's what I believe. I never said anything different.

I'm thinking of the school kids selling candy bars and other trinkets for fundraising, or anyone one else who stands to profit from a sale.

I have no idea what you're arguing. You appear to be arguing that worship is something you should be doing all day every day even while trimming the verge and going to the market. (At least that's what you said, but then you said you meant it figuratively, and then you said I should take you literally . . .) Anyway I don't believe worship is something that you should do all day every day. I believe worship is something that you must abstain from regular work to perform. Hence, don't be selling at church. That's why I asked you if you equated the prayer closet and the gathering with trimming the verge and going to market. You appeared to say that you did.

I guess if we both agree with Dr. Ketchum, then we must be on the same side of the selling issue, but I still have no idea what you think worship is.

 

I'll simplify what I've already said clearly on this thread. Worship is bowing down and worship is serving.

 

i still imo beleive the reason Jesus drove them out was because they were selling Doves, sheep and oxen, which were used for sacrifices.