Christian "Rock"?

Kutless's new album is going to rock hard. [pun intended ] William you do not know these bands so you can't get on a board like this and start attacking people. Christian=Attack. I don't think so.

 

Kutless, just all other rock groups, plays the music so loud you can't understand the lyrics.

I just tried to listen to 'Beyond The Surface', 'Shut Me Out', and 'Treason'. The sad thing is they are no different than the worldly group. If one can't hear the lyrics, the only thing that is being fed is the flesh.

Satan has deceived so many to believe they are pleasing God by the music they listen to and they are so wrong. The Bible tells us in Philippians 2 verse 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus. I cannot see our Lord as a head-banger.

 

I have that on my computer.

 

I understand their lyrics just fine, thanks, and even heavier Christian bands.

So please, speak for yourself concerning what people can and cannot understand.

 

You have already condemned each and every one by your blanket statement earlier. And, now you claim that you don't know each and every one. How can you make a judgement on what you don't know.

I agree only God knows and he knows us all. We all have our faults. Is having faults mean we are decievers? </font>[/QUOTE]Ok I'll try to apease your amusesment . Crhistianity and Rock and Roll,Raggae, Country, and all of the above mentioned earlier, cannot be combined ,I'm sure you can try but its like trying to convert a pig into a cat. Its etheir Gospel or the World, you choose. Dont have two masters, Make a Joyful noise , and dont use those instruments,to promote satans lies. thanx and God Bless. </font>[/QUOTE]I have read this thread. What is Christian music? Does it honor God? Yes it does. Does the Bible tell us which tone and tempo to use? Make a joyful noise. That is what the Word says. If we where in new testament times, our worship would have a middle eastern tone.

Amazing Grace could be the most well known hymn. When it was written it was not widely popular. The church of the day didn't think it was Godly.

The church started in the 1st century. So, by your thought Mr. correa we should be singing 1st century songs. Does your church?

Dude. listen to the message and not the beat.It might set you free.

 

Let's think about this rationally shall we?
How can music, in and of itself, be inherently good or bad? Of God or of Satan?
The people that write and play the music can either be a sinner or a saint, and can be used for either good or evil, but to say that all music of XYZ category is "of the world" is nonsense.

Afterall, what is music? Essentially it is the combination, organization, and disretization of sound waves that consists of various frequencies and amplitudes with a variety of timbres.

Take the above, and remove the organization and you basically have noise.

So tell me how one set of organized sounds waves of various timbres is ok, but not another?

 

You have yet to pinpoint who you are talking about, so I don't know what instruments you are refering to. But keep posting, I always yawn when I'm interested.

 

Ok...so no one seems to appreciate the quoting of Romans 12 and the theme of seperation as reason enough for so called 'christian' rock music. If you want to say that I must provide a scripture on why it is unscriptual and to not accept what I provide. And then as one poster put it

then why don't you provide a scripture that says using worldly-like "up-to-the-time" music is acceptable and what we are to use.

I believe that Christ, the Apostles, and those of the early church would be disappointed in our argument that we must fit in and use the music, dress, etc to get the world to accept our message. The ministry of Christ was not to fit in with the world but to save souls and He said that they would also hate the disciples (and their message) because they hated Jesus. He called a Christian that tried to fit in as one being "double-minded" "being unequally yoked" "serving two masters". There needs to be an obvious seperation in our testimony!!

One of the biggest issues I have is that looking at most of the bands and cd covers you can't tell the 'christian' groups apart from another rock, pop, metal or whatever band. And their musical presentation is just as fit for the MTV crowd as well with the lights, smoke, etc. I'm sad to see that another poster said it would be good if MTV hosted an hour of worship. This is so sad!! IMO that is like saying as long as the Bible is preached then we'll allow a Satanic Minister to preach in our churches. Our message [the Gospel] is to be rpeached in such a way that is not distracted by the worldly influence and it is presentation is not one of conformity but one of seperation.

May God Bless and may we decide to disagree on this matter. Because I'm convinced my Bible tells me how to deal with these things of world look and worldly influence and so I'll not be swayed to your argument. If I'm wrong then I'll apologize in Heaven

 

Great...I'll look you up. I'll even introduce you to some of the "heathen" you've criticized here, and we'll have a good laugh about it.

You have already condemned each and every one by your blanket statement earlier. And, now you claim that you don't know each and every one. How can you make a judgement on what you don't know.

I agree only God knows and he knows us all. We all have our faults. Is having faults mean we are decievers? </font>[/QUOTE]Ok I'll try to apease your amusesment . Crhistianity and Rock and Roll,Raggae, Country, and all of the above mentioned earlier, cannot be combined ,I'm sure you can try but its like trying to convert a pig into a cat. Its etheir Gospel or the World, you choose. Dont have two masters, Make a Joyful noise , and dont use those instruments,to promote satans lies. thanx and God Bless. </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for a bunch of biblical clips strung together, but that does not make a coherent theology.

Perhaps you can explain to the class "it's either Gospel or the world." Are you referring to Gospel music? Which kind...southern Gospel, black Gospel, spirituals, sacred harp...what?

It's obvious you have no grasp of musical history. Can you not realize that all music, at one time, was "contemporary?"

Show me, from scripture, a list of "unredeemable" isntruments. And while you're at it, ask God to let David know that he wrote some of the Psalms to be sung to "satanic" instruments...those horrible, evil, percussive instruments.

Look at it this way: is your computer evil? Well, of course it is. In ten seconds you could go to any porn site imaginable. Is the BB web site evil? Of course it is...it has a forum...just like some of those porn sites. It has a web address...just like porn sites.

I'm pointing out a logical fallacy in your argument...you're arguing that a form is evil...when the form is the medium for the message. Computers aren't evil--they simply carry a message, be it good or evil. Electric guitars can be used by a pervert to corrupt, or they can be used by a saint to glorify God.

Jesus was very hard on the Pharisees who saw a work of God and attributed it to Satan.

 

We also aren't to judge someone simply by their appearance.

1 Samuel 16:7
But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

The Pharisees looked the right way, said the right things, went thru the right motions, but clearly you could not judge the condition of their hearts by their appearance.

Matthew 23:25-28
25"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence.

26"You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.

27"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.

28"So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

 

I have listened to Kutless and you can understand what they are saying if you really want to.

I do not buy this argument at all. It all depends on your perspective.

I have been to a Gaithers concert and I could not understand a lot of what they were saying but many the older folks were going nuts for em. What is the difference?

So much of this music stuff is about preferences and people naturally think their preference is better than others and honors God more.

 

This goes under the heading of "Songs I Wish I'd Written." If any music, ANY MUSIC, becomes greater in my eyes than the Creator of tone, notes and rhythm (God) than it's an idol. That doesn't matter if it's a hymn, a worship song, or a 4-part "convention" song. Check this out:

Clear the Stage by Ross King (C) 2002 Ross King

Clear the stage and set the sound a lights ablaze
If that's the measure you must take to crush the idols.
Jerk the pews and all the decorations too until the congregation's few then have revival.
Tell your friends that this is where the party ends,
Until you're broken for your sins you can't be social.
And seek the Lord and wait for what he has in store,
And know that great is your reward so just be hopeful.

CHORUS
‘Cause you can sing all you want to, yes, you can sing all you want to.
You can sing all you want to, but don’t get me wrong... worship is more than a song.

Take a break from all the plans that you have made
And sit at home alone and wait for God to whisper.
Beg and plead Him open up His mouth and speak,
And pray for real upon your knees until they blister.
Shine the light on every corner of your life until the pride and lust and lies are in the open.
Read the Word and put to test the things you've heard
Until your heart and soul are stirred and rocked and broken.

CHORUS

Anything I put before my God is an idol.
Anything I want with all my heart is an idol.
Anything I can't stop thinking of is an idol.
Anything that I give all my love is an idol.
We must not worship something that's not even worth it,
Clear the stage, make some space for the One who deserves it.

And I can sing all I want to, yes, I can sing all I want to.
I can sing all I want to, and still get it wrong…
And you can sing all you want to, yes, you can sing all you want to.
You can sing all you want to, but don’t get me wrong... worship is more than a song.

 

Your reasoning sounds gnostic; appealing to the body = evil. I would like to ask you if you enjoy sports or any other "physical" hobby. Does watching a receiver catch a touchdown appeal to the "flesh" or is it spiritual? God gave us things to enjoy, music included. To claim if you enjoy a musical style it must be evil is silly.

 

Kutless is a great group of guys I know a friend who has met them. He says they love God. Did you know they have band devotionals while on tour? I agree with others you can understand them easily. It just depends if you want to or not.

 

Sorry, Diggin', you're a preacher and I would expect better exegesis from you...Phil. 2:5, from which you quoted one phrase, out of context, is a passage referring to Christ's humility and service...this has nothing to do with musical styles and preferences.

By the way, you also just indicted all instrumental and classical works of music...if you can't hear words, you're feeding the flesh.

God is blessing our ministry here. Kids are being saved, and Christians are growing in their faith. The music we use isn't an object of worship, but rather a tool God uses to glorify His name. I'll restate it here: we do new music, old music, and ancient music here. You might hear a 6 month-old piece, followed by a 400 year-old hymn. If you want to assign that to Satan's work, be my guest, but I feel it necessary to warn you...Jesus didn't look kindly to people assigning works of God to the kingdom of satan.

 

I have been away for awhile but I am always interested in this sort of debate. Me I grew up on the great Christian Rock of Petra. The lyrics were always clear and they had a 33 year ministry with great results as far as I know. Their beliefs have never been hidden. best example? the song Creed. solid statement of belief top to bottom.

I believe in God the Father - maker of heaven and earth
And in Jesus Christ His only Son
I believe in the virgin birth
I believe in the Man of Sorrows bruised for iniquities
I believe in the Lamb who was crucified and hung between two thieves

I believe in the resurrection on the third and glorious day
And I believe in the empty tomb and the stone that the angel rolled away
He descended and set the captives free
And now He sits at God's right hand and prepares a place for me

(Chorus)
This is my creed - the witness I have heard
The faith that has endured
This truth is assured
Through the darkest ages past
Though persecuted, it will last
And I will hold steadfast to this creed

I believe He sent His Spirit to comfort and to reveal
To lead us into the truth and light, to baptize and to seal
I believe that He will come back the way He went away
And receive us all unto Himself, but no man knows the day

I believe He is the Judge of all men, small and great
The resurrected souls of men receive from Him their fate
Some to death and some to life, some to their reward
Some to sing eternal praise forever to our Lord

 

Sorry, Diggin', you're a preacher and I would expect better exegesis from you...Phil. 2:5, from which you quoted one phrase, out of context, is a passage referring to Christ's humility and service...this has nothing to do with musical styles and preferences.

By the way, you also just indicted all instrumental and classical works of music...if you can't hear words, you're feeding the flesh.

God is blessing our ministry here. Kids are being saved, and Christians are growing in their faith. The music we use isn't an object of worship, but rather a tool God uses to glorify His name. I'll restate it here: we do new music, old music, and ancient music here. You might hear a 6 month-old piece, followed by a 400 year-old hymn. If you want to assign that to Satan's work, be my guest, but I feel it necessary to warn you...Jesus didn't look kindly to people assigning works of God to the kingdom of satan. </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry, rbell, I would have to disagree. Kids are being attracted to the church by the worldly music and that is all that will keep them there. Take away their right to play and listen to their rock and roll and they will leave the flock.

One cannot use the world to win the lost. The lost are already in and of the world.

 

And take "traditional" music out of some churches and you'll have a bunch of older folks leave. What's your point?