Christian "Rock"?

No, he is saying that any music younger than the Corinthian church is just having sex with the world.

 

I'll be honest with you... There is no scripture that says what kind of music to play or listen to.. so I have none...

But you don't either...
That is why is a preference.

It is ascriptural... The scripture doesn't speak on it.. God doesn't care as long as we praise him..

Now does CCM praise Him... some does, some doesn't

Does Hymns praise him... Some does, some doesn't.. I know a few that praise works...
"Hold to God's unchanging hand" is one..
sorry, but God is holding onto mine.. as any good parent would.

"Just a little talk with Jesus" mentions a "prayer wheel" I think it is from buddhism.. If I remember right.. I hate that song..

You see we will never agree, except on one thing... anything we do, we should be doing it for God's glory.. if you can't sing new songs for God's glory, don't. Sing the hymns... they praise him also.

I can't remember who said it in this thread, but someone said that if they are wrong, they will apologize in Heaven.,.. I suspect we all will be wrong about something... until then... just keep on praising God.

 

Good post, TT. I hate that song too. Because Just a little talk with Jesus isnt what makes it right. But bad doctrine in hymns and gospel songs is a big soap box for me and I better not get up on it tonight.

 

then why don't you provide a scripture that says using worldly-like "up-to-the-time" music is acceptable and what we are to use.

I believe that Christ, the Apostles, and those of the early church would be disappointed in our argument that we must fit in and use the music, dress, etc to get the world to accept our message. The ministry of Christ was not to fit in with the world but to save souls and He said that they would also hate the disciples (and their message) because they hated Jesus. He called a Christian that tried to fit in as one being "double-minded" "being unequally yoked" "serving two masters". There needs to be an obvious seperation in our testimony!!

One of the biggest issues I have is that looking at most of the bands and cd covers you can't tell the 'christian' groups apart from another rock, pop, metal or whatever band. And their musical presentation is just as fit for the MTV crowd as well with the lights, smoke, etc. I'm sad to see that another poster said it would be good if MTV hosted an hour of worship. This is so sad!! IMO that is like saying as long as the Bible is preached then we'll allow a Satanic Minister to preach in our churches. Our message [the Gospel] is to be rpeached in such a way that is not distracted by the worldly influence and it is presentation is not one of conformity but one of seperation.

May God Bless and may we decide to disagree on this matter. Because I'm convinced my Bible tells me how to deal with these things of world look and worldly influence and so I'll not be swayed to your argument. If I'm wrong then I'll apologize in Heaven </font>[/QUOTE]Let me quote myself and say that the only ones to quote any scripture (whether you have accepted it or not) is those who talk of being seperated and set apart from the world and the appearance of evil. So as we Baptist are fond of scripture that keeps us from doing things and scripture that tells us how and why to do things. Please share with me a scripture verse that says that it is ok to have this kind of "MTV-like" music in our churches. Share with me a verse that says we need to allow worldly influence into our churches to have a better outreach or to be more modern. I'll stop quoting scripture because I would not want ya'll to feel the need to discredit God's Word...instead I'll encourage you to enlighten us with the scripture that ya'll use to base this "MTV-like" music ministry on...I patiently await your guidance and verses so I can take accountability of my service in the Lord's ministry! </font>[/QUOTE]There are a few problems with your statement.

A. You are misusing scripture, so most of us are busy correcting your misuse.
B. The onus is on you to prove us wrong because you are saying we are wrong. This is normal in rhetoric and debate.
C. The Bible doesn’t mention many things such as the Trinity. You can’t argue from silence.
D. You are using ridiculous rhetoric and logical fallacies. There is no point in posting the same points over and over, you have obviously not read them.
E. You are handing over Gods creation to the unsaved and letting them deter you from making wonderful musical praise to the Lord.
F. By your standard of separation you shouldn’t have computers. (see quote below)

MRCOON SAYS “But I think the Lord's guidance is that our aim should not be to use the Devil's tools to do God's work.”

Now I can assure you that David used stringed instruments (see scripture below), but you can certainly not show me where he used the internet. Music is Gods tool that has been perverted by un-Godly artists by their lyrics and their lifestyle not their rhythm, thus not making it intrinsically wrong. If a Baptist Church uses the web format of a popular secular website are they being hip and trying to attract people through “worldly” vehicles? Of course not, we are not to be stale and stuck in our own ways, while neglecting the personality of the youth. The computer isn’t intrinsically wrong, but the world has managed to pervert it. This is true for literary works, TV, Music, Food, Sex, etc. Now you have managed to avert all preceding statements in regard to your statements, but I would urge you to consider reading them in depth. There are many great analogies in there that answer all your questions. We talk as if we still act, dress, and talk like the Corinthian Church did. There’s a reason our clothing looks nothing like Paul or David’s clothing. There is a reason the Baptist faith differs in different countries and cultures (in regard to worship and the Church service). Times and culture change and there is nothing wrong with understanding and relating to the youth while still holding on to sound biblical principles.


Now to some musical scripture – (all from the KJV)

Psalm 149:1Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.
Psalm 47:1 clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph.
Psalm 150:3-53Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp. 4Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. 5Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
Psalm 30:11Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness;
Psalm 149:3Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.
Heb. 2:12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

God bless my friends.

 

I love how in one thread you guys love quoting form the Old Testament and then in another thread you say we are not under the OT because we are NT Christians. You can't have it both ways!!

Oh, don't stop comparing with computers...I'm sure you can 'preach' heresy about Burger King and Pizza, and a bunch of other things. You do nothing to insult us. If a church used a porno website to attract people to God and to make customers or members listen to a Bible recording in between looking at porno movies...then fine your argument has merit. But to say that I say that because the world uses cars or electricity or eats at Burger King is ridiculous and you don't prove anything to us...other than your lack of common sense and lack of depth in the discussion. We are talking of music, it's influence in many churches and how we should be different from what is offered in the world. By the way Satan use scripture to tempt Jesus so do we throw out the Bible? No we use the Bible the proper way same with these other things. Use music the proper way and that is by not compromising it to appeal to the lost to get them into church. Is you efforts commendable? Yes sir! Is your desire to get the message to the lost commendable? Yes sir! Are your efforts compromising and limiting of God's power? Yes!
What is the world's music..it is tantalizing, enticing and gets the body moving...so Christian music should definitely be opposite of this but sadly it is not in alot of modern 'christian'rock. Look at your audience Sunday and measure their reaction to the music is it in reverance to God? If God was standing there would he feel like you are paying Him the proper respect He deserves as King and Creator?

Your arguements are like saying to be more patriotic we need to add the National Anthem to rap or heavy metal just to keep it updated and to keep the younger generation patriotic. This is silly because it would be considered disrespectful and degrading to the message...and I'd be pretty certain that many non-christians would feel the same way. Why do we do this to God and instead of honoring Him and making our worship respectful we spend more time trying to make it "more relevant" to modern times to reach modern people? Is the correct answer one hymnal over another? No Is the correct answer a certain song vice another certain song? No Is the answer certain instruments used or not used? No God clearly expects us to praise him and got expects us to do it according tot he gifts he has given us...BUT he expects it to be in a way that does not compromise the message or make us look and act like the world!!

 

A. I don’t know the thread you are talking about and I wasn’t involved in it, but I think anyone with a bit of logic can understand the OT law and how it relates to the NT Church (If need be we can discuss this issue in another thread). By the way I also sourced Hebrews (NT) and will post more NT if you would like.
B. You proved my point. The medium (the computer or music) isn’t the issue it’s the content involved. Just as an instrument, lyrical composition, or a melody isn’t inherently evil nor is a computer (the content renders it sin or not sin). Thus Christian music and secular music are diametrically opposed.
C. Your contention is that just because it attracts people it’s wrong. It’s funny, but in a southern gospel Church I think you’d be hard pressed to a polka based Church service. Why? Because genres appeal to certain people. There is absolutely nothing wrong with listening to appealing music and at the same time worshipping God. I don’t equate joy with sin; I think God gave us all talents and I personally enjoy seeing people from various backgrounds and cultures using them to glorify God. I enjoy worshipping God.
D. It is not my job to discern the reverence in the hearts of the congregation. That is between God almighty and them. I can only comment on my personal worship and it is extremely reverent. Again you haven’t proved one type of music is more reverent then another, so your premise is null and void.
E. I’ve never said one type of music is more Godly then another; you said that. I don’t care if the national anthem is played with a harmonica and an Amish violinist; it’s the words that matter to me.
F. If anything is limiting God it’s your position. We are willing to let God break us out of our comfort zone in order to reach the lost.
G. If you just went back and read the past 8 or so pages your questions would be answered. I urge you to do this so we don’t need to answer your statements again and again.
H. It’s ok to change your mind, I’ve done it many times; this board has taught me a great deal and I’m constantly learning.
I. Please do not take this discussion personal, as far as I know you are a brother in Christ and I wish you the best.
J. I’ve tried my best to treat you with respect, I simply ask for the same. If I’ve offended you I apologize.
K. I also ask that you stop twisting my premise and contentions; it is very evident and is not productive or intellectually honest. God bless.

 

Oh no? I guess I’ll have to post this again.

We aren't to judge someone simply by their appearance. Which seems to be what some are doing. “People that play XYZ style look like this, therefore the music is evil” seems to be the basic argument.

1 Samuel 16:7
But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

God Judges the heart, not appearances. My wife used to dress "different" at church just to see if people were phony-baloney. And yes, she remained "modest".

Also, the Pharisees looked the right way, said the right things, went thru the right motions, but clearly you could not judge the condition of their hearts by their appearance.

Matthew 23:25-28
25"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence.

26"You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.

27"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.

28"So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

 

I do not have a conviction about music, but I have a preference and that is gospel music and hymns...

 

Where's that ignore button

 

It's the left mouse button (unless you have a left handed mouse)

 

Matthew 23

 

One sunday morning our pastor told the congregation about his visit to another church. He didn't tell us which church it was but he did tell us that he heard someone stop a teenager on her way into the sanctuary and they informed her that when she came to the Lords house she should not be wearing pants. She was told that the next time she came to worship she ought to wear a dress. This is a perfect example of how man looks at the outward appearance and God looks at the heart. God has blessed all of us with uniqueness. This tells me that he finds pleasure in variety. He gave certain preferences to Michael W. Smith, and a different preference to Martin Luther. Hymns are beautiful, meaningful, songs that hold some herritage and tradition, but they are hardly the "roots of our faith." Most of them were written between 1700 and 1900. The roots of our faith go back to 0030. I believe that it is the flesh that causes people to try to control the sound of the music used in a worship service. Just because it doesn't appeal to my taste does not mean that it doesn't please God. It doesn't even have to be music at all for God to count it worship. Worship comes from the heart. I can worship Him today when I am doing my house work, if I do it to glorify Him. An artist can worship the lord and his paint brush can be his instrument. Being what God created us to be should be a joy to us and to Him. The point is our worship can be influenced by personal style without changing what is in our hearts. Thats what He saw when Carl Boberg wrote "How Great Thou Art" and that's what He saw when Chris Tomlin wrote "How Great is our God."

 

This is what I love about Christian liberty -- some of you will be worshipping God this week through traditional hymns of the faith. Others will be worshipping God through modern songs of expression. Our rock type band will be leading us in some incredible songs of worship.

If you put me in a church with nothing but traditional hymns, worship will be the furtherest thing from my mind. And if some of you attended our church, you would leave holding your ears and saying that stuff is "worldly".

That's what Christian liberty is all about.

 

I would have to say that is not Christian Liberty at all. First you say if you go to a traditional service, worship will be the furthest thing from your mind, then that we would say your music is worldly.

The fact that you come to a traditional service and do not feel a spirit of worship unless you can hear the rock and roll style music shows you do not go to church for worship at all, but rather for music. The music that appeals to your flesh.

 

Or it might show that the traditional services he's attended have been dead. I have been to many services (of all kinds) that have been devoid of much worship at all... just going through the motions... singing the songs... with no regard to what you're singing or Who you're singing about. It's not about emotionalism, but emotion is involved. Don't accuse anyone of worldly ideals just because they don't feel the Spirit in a service. It could be that we need to take another look at how we worship.

 

I feel we get out of a worship service pretty much what we put into it.

If we go feeling we're not going to get anything out of it - we won't.

If we go feeling we're going to get something out of it - we will.

People can worship God in their churches and homes without any music.

I don't think music is the key to not worshipping. I think worshipping at ALL is the key here.

Reminds me of a lady who told a Pastor, after his sermon on 'my cup runneth over', that he didn't fill her cup. The Pastor looked at her and said, "Maybe you had your cup upside down."

 

And that is also the great thing about liberty ... I can be that different from you and yet still be just as much "right with God" as you. God is awesome.

By the way, I am the pastor so going to the church because the "music appeals to my flesh" is quite amusing to me.

Stay with your hymns. But don't think for a second it makes you any more spiritual than someone who doesn't prefer them (which is most of the rest of the world if you can think that broad).

Perhaps you need to dig a little deeper to support your preferences disguised as "convictions".

 

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This is what I love about Christian liberty -- some of you will be worshipping God this week through traditional hymns of the faith. Others will be worshipping God through modern songs of expression. Our rock type band will be leading us in some incredible songs of worship.

If you put me in a church with nothing but traditional hymns, worship will be the furtherest thing from my mind. And if some of you attended our church, you would leave holding your ears and saying that stuff is "worldly".

That's what Christian liberty is all about.
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Posts: 1565 | From: Wild, Wild West | Registered: Feb 2002 | IP: Logged |

Diggin in da Word
Member
Member # 13310

posted March 23, 2006 02:30 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by All about Grace:
This is what I love about Christian liberty -- some of you will be worshipping God this week through traditional hymns of the faith. Others will be worshipping God through modern songs of expression. Our rock type band will be leading us in some incredible songs of worship.

If you put me in a church with nothing but traditional hymns, worship will be the furtherest thing from my mind. And if some of you attended our church, you would leave holding your ears and saying that stuff is "worldly".

That's what Christian liberty is all about.
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I would have to say that is not Christian Liberty at all. First you say if you go to a traditional service, worship will be the furthest thing from your mind, then that we would say your music is worldly.

The fact that you come to a traditional service and do not feel a spirit of worship unless you can hear the rock and roll style music shows you do not go to church for worship at all, but rather for music. The music that appeals to your flesh.


Well put, All About Grace!

Diggin: The fact that you come to a traditional service and do not feel a spirit of worship unless you can hear the rock and roll style music shows you do not go to church for worship at all, but rather for music. The music that appeals to your flesh.

So can you go to a kutless concert and feel a spirit of worship? Many of us can. One could easily argue that hymns are what appeals to your flesh. That type of reasoning will run you in circles. It's actually not about what appeals to any of us at all. Worship is not about how WE feel anyway. It's an offering to our King. I think the point All About Grace intended was that it is more difficult for worship to come from the heart if he/or she is in a traditional service because it is more suited for those whose personal style is more traditional.

 

Ahhh, but that is just it, JR. Worship is not the music, worship comes from the heart. One does not need music to worship the Lord.

The very first time worship is mentioned in the Bible, there is no mention of music. As a matter of fact, no musical instruments were carried to that worship. It is the story of Abraham's obedience to God and the sacrifice God required of him.

As a matter of fact, in the 102 verses that mention worship, there is not one mention of song, dance, instrument or instruments.

Worship is not the music. Worship comes from the heart.