Non-Calvinists: Best argument?

Augustine

“That is, he should not hate the man because of the fault, nor should he love the fault because of the man; rather, he should hate the fault but love the man. And when the fault has been healed there will remain only what he ought to love, and nothing that he ought to hate” (City of God, 14.6).


Augustine.

 

This seems to contradict or at least back track a little on your earlier statement. So what does this leave us with? God picks and chooses among the sinners who He will hate and who He will love?! Or may we suggest that God punishes sin because of His love also. I don't think I even need to explain that last statement because you as a calvinist should be able to understand that reasoning quite well. That is a compliment by the way.

 

Isaiah 40:28,

You asked, why a rich ruler was not saved ever?

Because, he decided refuse to put his faith in Christ, he was worried over his finance and held his worldly things, that why he is now in hell.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Yeah, but my question was directed toward what He thinks of fetuses and infants. Love? Hate? Isaac and Esau-wise, what is your theology here? All "hated" and condemned? Special "gospel" or exemption or dispensation?

skypair

 

By a correct unerstanding of sane used in context.

 

Sane (and Miseou) does not mean the absence of love as the english word "hate" is used.

 

Why

Why do we strain and strive so hard to paint God as a
-puppetier
-a hater
-one who blinds or hardens so THEY CAN'T be saved
-one who offers His love to only some
-a god who is a respector of persons (I am chosen but you are not nor can you be saved)
-that has created much of humanity to be without chance or hope!
-a god who does indeed influence people to sin for his will or glory


then claim all to HIS glory and on top of that soil Him even more by declaring "this is the doctrine of grace"!!!!!

 

God has a right to be God. HIs word is tells us who God is. He cannot hate His creation if He says He loves it and it is good. He cannot say whosoever will and then declare only those that I will. His word is true. You have chosen to interpt scripture to create a god that is a monster. One who hates people He created, one who dangles salvation in front of him yet keeps it out of his reach. A god who does at least influence people to sin for His glory.

 

??

-a hater [R -- Not in the modern sense of the word . But He does hate certain people .][/font]

Rippon I would like you to explain more what you mean here by this.[/font]

one who blinds or hardens so THEY CAN'T be saved [ R. -- That's true .But remember that those He has not chosen to not want to be saved . They love their sin too much .]

This sounds a lot like those who do not hold to Calvinism. So you are saying that God only denies the truth of salvation to those who love their sin more then those He offers it too?

-a god who is a respector of persons (I am chosen but you are not nor can you be saved) [ R-- He's God with a big "G" . He chooses those whom He desires and needn't get your approval on the matter . ]

And why would God desire you over anyone else He created? This is what most calvinst rant and rave about, why does God choose, to those who are not Calvinist. Now you come up with “God desires you”. Yet you wonder why people accuse Calvinist as being prideful.[/font]

that has created much of humanity to be without chance or hope! [ R --Chance has nothing to do with salvation .][/font]

Alright, then deal with hope or a prayer.[/font]

a god who does indeed influence people to sin for his will or glory [ R -- That's God with a big "G" . Everything He does reflects His glory .][/font]
a god who (little g in my mind) who cannot be tempted and tempts no man then does for his (small h for he is a small god) glory is not the God of the bible. That last statement is just scary.

 

rip,

"Does God hate innocent fetuses and infants?" is your assignment. Did the dog eat your homework?

skypair

 

No he doesn't. It's not that God doesn't hate. There's no such thing as innocent fetuses and infants. However, since our God is gracious, we have great hope that He may choose some or even all infants or unborn children to salvation by granting them faith. However, if He has chosen not to grant salvation to even one child, He would still be worth my worship. I say this as a father who has lost three children to miscarriage.

 

So you're saying that God "grants" faith to those who have no understanding of what that is? That some are saved without knowing that it has happened and without ever hearing the gospel? That's called HyperCalvinism.