Did Jesus turn the water into wine, or grape juice

John N. Moore and Harold Slusher writing on the subject in their book, A Search for Order in Complexity, states:

Alcohol is seldom consumed for its food value, although when drunk regularly in small amounts it seems to build up fat. It may seem to be a stimulant, but actually it is a narcotic. All of its effects interfere with some bodily process. If it seems to make a person more active, it is because the normal controls are stopped.

After a drink a person may feel warm because the arteries leading to the skin dilate and let more blood through. But this process causes the body to cool off rapidly. The principal effect of drinking alcohol is on the nervous system, and the higher centers are affected first. For example, a person may not distinguish between what is funny and what is obscene. He may be friendly, but then suddenly change from affability to unprovoked rage. Thus he can become an unpredictable and dangerous person, even when he might not admit that he is drunk.

 

That must be why scripture warns against drunkeness.

 

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
God of the Bible.....did not drink alcohol!
You will not get the majority of fundamental Baptist preachers to go along with your idea that Jesus was a drinker. Noah had three chapters of Scripture written about him before he consumed alcohol and only three verses after. God tells us it is wrong in the Old Testament and you think the Lord Jesus said it was right in the New? No wonder it is so hard to get people saved today.
[personal attacks edited]

[ April 01, 2006, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

Yes, we who claim Christ as our savior are different.
Jesus drank sour wine on the cross. Your problem isn't with us, it with scripture. And who cares what the majority of fundy preachers think, I don't worship them. In fact, the majority of fundy preachers appear to be power hungry pharisees, much like the way you present yourself.

[ April 01, 2006, 01:31 AM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

Proverbs 31:6 -- Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to him whose life is bitter.

 

Yes, we who claim Christ as our savior are different. -------------------------------------------------
7 pages on this and I make one comment of my own.........and you give me this. I am a Baptist preacher.
You are not going to convince anybody of their need of Salvation with alcohol

[personal attacks will be edited.
This entire post did not contribute anything to the topic at hand. The thread will be shut down if the coversation continues in this manner. Please post showing grace to other posters as per posting rules #3, and #4].

[ April 01, 2006, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

Actually, Shiloh, I don't drink. Haven't in a long time.

And you being a Baptist Preacher, does that make you more saved than me ?

 

I know of a lot of Baptist Preachers who I wouldn't walk across the street to hear. That means nothing to me. You are the one calling names.

I don't drink, for going on 2.5 years. The Holy Spirit did it. Far be it from me to tell others how much better of a Christian I am because of it.

What are your sins, preacherman ? Do you have the guts to tell us ?

 

Proverbs 31:6 -- Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to him whose life is bitter. </font>[/QUOTE]Don't you get it? That obviously means to give concentrated grape juice to those who are perishing and regular grape juice to those who are bitter.

That's your idea. No one here has suggested such a thing.

 

Shiloh,
AS a fellow baptist preacher I would remind you to be apt to teach with all longsuffering, meekness, and patience.

Many christians, myself included believe the Bible teaches that Christ drank fermented wine and not one of these that I know have or would assume or try to convince that Jesus drank beer.

Beer is an unclean by-product. Wine is representative of the sinless blood of our Lord.

Beer is for recreational use, with a predominant intent of misuse. Wine may be misued, if it is, it is not because of the fermentation, but because of the nature of man, all men are sinners saved by grace, nothing more.

What may be held in contempt by some may not be so contemptable by others, while on the other hand, quick temperment would do little to convince any of one's position.

Just my opinion, for what it is or isn't worth.

Agree or not, I don't mind, however, do watch the way you post and the language used.

Thanks and May God Bless,
Bro. Dallas Eaton
Co-moderator

 

This thread is being closed for the time being so that I can edit/delete all the personal attacks that have been thrown about. I will re-open it once the offending (rule breaking) posts have ben cleaned up. However, heed this warning: BB Posting Rules 3 & 4 will be strictly enforced. Any post found to be violating the published BB Posting Rules will be brought before the attention of the BB Administrative Council and 10-day suspensions may result for continued rule violations. Debate the issue and discuss the Scriptures, but do not attack the person holding the opposing view.

Bible-Boy,
Forum Moderator

 

DHK,

Thanks for your help in cleaning up the rule violations. I started at page one and worked my way back. When I got to page eight I found that you had already been at work.

Now for everyone else, please keep your discusion and debate focused on the issue and the text of Scripture and do not resort to persoanl attacks against those who happen to hold the opposing view. Likewise, be sure to show grace to your fellow posters when your reply.

 

Philip
"I do think that if a Christian wishes to drink should consider if it will have an effect on their testimony in today's world. Most non-Christians think of Christians as being straight-laced and that includes drinking (and sometimes even smoking)."
"
Christians in the USA seem to be out of luck in that regard. In most countries there is no connection in the minds of the locals between moderate alcohol consumption and Christianity.

On the other hand...
Maybe there is hope for American Evangelicals lusting for beer.
Maybe the outside world in the US never noticed that connection either.
http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2003/09/hide_the_beer_t.html#comments

 

[personal attacks will be edited.
This entire post did not contribute anything to the topic at hand. The thread will be shut down if the coversation continues in this manner. Please post showing grace to other posters as per posting rules #3, and #4].
-------------------------------------------------
It seems as though you will edit anything that you don't agree with. I believe WE have a low concept of Christ. The lord Jesus died for us, had our SIN placed on Him at Calvary. Yet WE try to live as close to our old sin nature as we can get away with. Anyone that preaches or has preached this is censored from this board. On here it has been stated that a "christian" is allowed by Scripture to do anything the world does as long as it is in moderation. No my friend, that is wrong. I am sure my moderator you will censor this post....so be it. This Fundamental Baptist Preacher is not going to bother you people any more. The sad thing is the liberal view of sin like on this board has permeated our churches. Did Jesus drink alcohol? Of coarse He didn't! Did He make it for others to drink? Don't be ridicules. For the Lord Jesus to do that He would have gone against His Father. For anyone to say different is blaspheme. Mr moderator you don't have to moderate me any more....

 

Alcott??? Are you perishing at this very moment?? Is your life bitter??

If your not and its not---then there's no need in considering consuming any form of alcoholic beverage

 

blackbird, I have some money left over after I paid the bills and gave my offering to Church. I guess then it's OK to spend the rest on whatever my heart desires...wine, beer and other strong drink.

 

Seems that would be between you and God

Romans 14 says

The Weak and the Strong

1, Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2, One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3, The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4, Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5, One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6, He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7, For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8, If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

9, For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10, You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11, It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "
12, So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13, Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14, As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15, If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16, Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17, For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

19, Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21, It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

22, So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23,But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

 

If one reads the scripture and rightly divides that scripture in the context in which it was written, one will see that God clearly condemns the use of beverage alcohol.

Alcohol is only attained through the decaying process of fermentation. God does not want that which is full of life to ingest that which harms both to the body and mind.