Did Jesus turn the water into wine, or grape juice

I must say it seems that some will say its ok for almost anything. Alcohol has destroyed more homes than any other thing I know, of except maybe infidelity and to condone it is wrong. To me, it brings back all the old days before I was a Christian, the fights, the jails, the broken homes, wife gone, children gone, losing of home and all I had worked for until one day I said "enough". You do not have a sound mind with acohol in the brain so "how could you serve God". Nonsense, and I too am a Baptist Preacher, Moderator, Pastor for over 33 years and in no way would I allow a member in God's Church to be under the influence of acohol.

I mean no harm to anyone, but this subject, or not the subject but some of the responses, really does turn over the cup.

 

Amen, Brother Bob!

So many want to justify the drinking of alcohol when the scripture plainly shows the dangers of partaking of it are so evident.

At the last it biteth like a serpent and stingeth like an adder. An adder, when it bites someone, brings certain death. Paul wrote in Romans 6:23 that the wages of sin is death. Solomon compared alcohol to the very thing Paul preached against; sin.

 

Here is a good site that lists the appendix of my Companion Bible. It has 198 subjects in it, and they can be viewed by changing the number after "append".

This one is on all the usages of the term 'wine' in Scripture:

http://www.angelfire.com/nv/TheOliveBranch/append27.html

I would say IMO that actual wine was served in the culture of Israel in Christ's time, and that He on occasion drank a small amount with dinner which is not then, or now a sin. (Unless it causes a weak brother to stumble).

Of course grape juice was not even invented until the 18th century by the Welch's company. And they invented wine juice, which without today's preservative would soon be ruined. That is not the case with wine which is preserved with alcohol and natural tannins.

http://www.ohiosbdc-ysu.com/Location/Guide/Oscar_Mayer/Wrigley/Welch_s/welch_s.html

And the idea that Jesus drank grape juice instead of wine makes me wonder why the Pharisees would accuse Jesus of being a glutton and a grape juice bibber? Hey, what's wrong that? Most Baptists could be accused of the same thing? (At least at any of our fellowships at church).

And it should be obvious to anyone that real wine was used during Communion in Paul's time since he chided the Corinthians for drinking too much and getting drunk in 1 Cor. 11:21. This should be obvious in reading about Mr. Welch that wine was used exclusively in communion services for hundreds of years.

 

Lets all drink, eat and be merry for tomorrow we die!!! And to think that they in olden times hadn't learned to perserve things is wrong. They even had running water in their homes and took us thousands of years to learn how to do it. We never have learned how they moved the stones to build the pyramids.

 

Ignore the scripture that says Look not upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright?

That word 'Look' in the Hebrew meant do not have experience with, do not approve.

At the last it biteth like a serpent and stingeth like an adder.

And yet, many who call themselves alive in Christ, approve of and partake of the very thing that brings forth death.

Amazing!

 

The Bar

By a convict serving a life term in Joliet Prison, Illinois

The Saloon is sometimes called a Bar,
A Bar to heaven, a door to hell
Whoever named it, named it well;
A Bar to manliness and wealth
A door to want and broken health;
A Bar to honor, pride and fame
A door to grief and sin and shame;
A Bar to hope, a bar to prayer
A door to darkness and despair;
A Bar to honored useful life
A door to brawling, senseless strife;
A Bar to all that's true and brave
A door to every drunkard's grave;
A Bar to joys that home imparts
A door to tears and aching hearts;
A Bar to heaven, a door to hell
Whoever named it, named it well!

--anon.

 

DHK;
quote
The Bar

By a convict serving a life term in Joliet Prison, Illinois

The Saloon is sometimes called a Bar,
A Bar to heaven, a door to hell
Whoever named it, named it well;
A Bar to manliness and wealth
A door to want and broken health;
A Bar to honor, pride and fame
A door to grief and sin and shame;
A Bar to hope, a bar to prayer
A door to darkness and despair;
A Bar to honored useful life
A door to brawling, senseless strife;
A Bar to all that's true and brave
A door to every drunkard's grave;
A Bar to joys that home imparts
A door to tears and aching hearts;
A Bar to heaven, a door to hell
Whoever named it, named it well!

--anon

That is worth repeating!!!

 

The Drunkard

I woke up this morning alone and cold
An empty wine bottle in my hand I now hold
A knot in my stomach, a pain in my head
A box in the alley is my only bed

A doctor last month said, 'Soon you will die
Cirrhosis has claimed you, there's no need to cry'
He's done all he can, but still there is hope
"Lord Jesus, I need you, with this I can't cope"

A drunkard's not welcome in God's home above
But Jesus can cleanse you with His precious blood
So if you're tired of Ol' Slewfoot and his damning wine
Just do what God says in First John One Nine

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Ronald Ward Robey

 

Paul also scolded them for having fornicators among them, probably because they were drunk!!!

 

And many call that grape juice?

 

Context, my friend, context.

 

And many call that grape juice? [/QB][/QUOTE]

It depends on what you want the Scriptures to say to meet your pre-conceived doctrines.

 

Brother Bob,

You may be right there. The Corinthian church had allowed many idolatrous practices to infiltrate its assembly and Paul was called upon to address the evils that were present.

 

SFIC and BB are ignoring scripture. the bible says NOT to be drunk it never says not to drink wine in fact if anything it says it is ok. remember the verse where Jesus drank wine
Matthew 11:18 & Luke:3

"For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking,
and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."


you can twist scripture all you want to have it fit what you want it say like the cults do. you are not changing my mind that if someone wants to have a glass of wine with their meal they are sinning. tell that to all those christians in Europe, who culturally have a glass with just about every meal. what's next African christians who beat their drums to loud or hard and dance are going to Hell too.

Romans 14 says

The Weak and the Strong

1, Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2, One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3, The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4, Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5, One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6, He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7, For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8, If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

9, For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10, You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11, It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "
12, So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13, Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14, As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15, If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16, Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17, For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

19, Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21, It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

22, So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23,But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

 

Frenchy,

Proverbs 23:31 tells us not to partake of alcoholic wine.

Of course those who want to make Jesus a drunk like the Pharisees will ignore that.

 

Yes I see SFIC you have taken that verse out of context. if you read the chapter it is talking about ABUSING alcohol or strong drink hence the word TARRY LONG/LINGERING OVER. it is so easy to take one verse out to fit what you mean, again cults do that.

Alcohol consumption becomes a sin when it corrupts righteous thought or behavior, harms health, or violates any civil law:


"Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine" Proverbs 23:29-30
"Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty" Proverbs 23:20-21

"And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess" Ephesians 5:18

"Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying." Romans 13:13

 

For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty" Proverbs 23:20-21

so now it is a sin to EAT...NO of course not, it is a sin to overeat!

 

Look not upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moveth itself aright has nothing to do with abuse.

It gives a specific time one is not to partake of the wine... when it is fermented.

Alcoholic wine is forbidden.

 

Forgive me i skipped 31
still read it context with 29-30-31

“Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.”
Proverbs 20:1

“Who hath woe? Who hath sorrow? Who hath contentions? Who hath babbling? Who hath wounds without cause? Who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.”
Proverbs 23:29-31

 

You still haven't answered me on this one, shall we then not eat for it is sin.


For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty" Proverbs 23:20-21

so now it is a sin to EAT...NO of course not, it is a sin to overeat!

legalism plain and simple. again i go back to the importance of BALANCE rightly dividing the truth. these verses are talking about EXCESS nothing more nothing less