Money

All your efforts to help someone else, will be in vain, if you do not provide for your family and yourself, so as to be in a position to help others.

I for one believes God wants us to help the poor, but do not believe God wants us to intentionally become poor, so we would not be able to help anyone.

I don't love money, but have enough to sense to know that I must have it, before ever being able to help others and my family. He that will not provide for his family is worse than an infidel and hath already denied the faith.

Use what God gave you to His Glory. Providing for your own family is glory to God. Giving to those in need is glory to God. To make onesself a pamper and become dependent on others for your own survival, is not what God meant for us to do. IMO. If it were true, then there would be no Christians in a position to help others.

I know all the scriptures that says to sell and give to the poor. Do I think God wants us to sell all we have today and take away from being able to provide for our own families, no I do not. IMO

1Ti 5:8But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

I know some ministeries that want you to give all you got to them. I have seen their jewerly, homes and cars that have been provided by the widow's check, while she did without food and medicine. I think they have their reward already and are in for a shock, in the end. IMO


BBob,

 

Hi all,

Money within itself is not evil. If we value it more than God or lust after it we make it evil. It could't be evil by itself, after all, when Christ was here, He had money. As a matter of fact, He was rich.

 

Please provide Scripture where tithe was ever money please.

 

Where do you get that information? I have proof he was poor while on Earth. You are listening to too many TV money preachers looks like.

 

Tithe

I do not need scripture to know that I should tithe. Why is the tithe important to me. It shows that I can live on 90%, it shows that God will provide. and in fact by saving over 10% I know that I can live on less than 80%. If God cannot trust you in the little things, like 10%, how can he trust you in the big things?

Do I not love my fellow church members enough to help them and our programs by tithing? If you will not do this I think it shows that you love money more than you love the Lord or otheres.

And, saving 10% or is, as I said, not just for self, but so you can help others who God brings into your life. If you spend all on self you cannot help others that God wants you to help. Where does that show your faith lies.:tonofbricks:

 

No, He wasn't.

 

Whoever said I wasn't a very generoous giver? I merely want to know how you can advise people to tithe and what Scriptures you have that says Christian are supposed to tithe. If it's a valid doctrine and you teach it, surely you have studied what the tithe is. You do realize your post is 100% opinion and 0% Scripture, right?

 

No doubt you don't because you can't find Scripture to support your view. Put YOUR opinions and emotion grabbing tactics aside and use your Bible.

 

JerryL,
I guess it depends on what your definition of rich is. I can assure you I do not get my information from TV money preachers. As a matter of fact, I don't take just anyone's word for anything. Lets see what the Bible says:

1. Jesus was born in a manger. Most people think it was because they didn't have money. This is false. They went to the inn first but there was no room for them. They went to the inn to rent a room. They didn't remain in the stables long, when they found room, they were in a house (Mat 2:11)

2. As a child, the wise men gave Him gifts of Gold, Frankincense and Myrrh (Mat 2:11). Rather expensive gifts wouldn't you say? For a person who doesn't waste, I would say they lasted a life time.

3. He had His own treasury and His own treasurer. There was always money in His trearury even though the treasurer (Judas) stole from Him (John 12:4-6).
The apostles asked Jesus, when He fed the five thousand, if He wanted them to go and buy food for them. By the way, there was 5,000 men that were going to be fed. That may have costed a dollar or two (Mark 6:37).

He didn't invest in a home and natural things because heaven was His home. He didn't waste money because He gave to the needy. He didn't live an extravegant life style so people think of Him as poor. Not to mention I have heard that all my life too but when I read for myself and don't take what others say, I find lots of things I have heard to actually be wrong.

For instance:Many people use this scripture and use it to show how poor He was.
Mat 8:20 but the Son of Man hath no where to lay His head.
How many times have you heard this to mean that He was so poor, He didn't have any money to buy a place or rent a place to sleep?

If we read what is actually being said, it tells us something different.
A scribe came to Him and said he would follow Him wherever He goes. Christ told Him that the foxes have holes, the birds have nests, but He has no where to lay His head. In other words, If you are going to follow Christ everywhere He goes, you will sell everything you have because you have no need of them. Christ was always on the move going from place to place doing the will of God.

Now, maybe rich was a stretch, but if it was it wasn't by much. He was far from poor. He lived His life the way He did for oursakes. He could have built a mansion and let people come to Him. His love for us was much more than that. He came to us.

Also, His Father is God (Who owns it all), His home is in heaven (Streets of gold, etc..) and He is the King of kings. He also paid a price that no one else could afford when He paid for our sins. :jesus:

 

JerryL,

Again, I want to say again, I was not meaning He was a millionaire, etc...
I am just saying that there is proof in the Word of God that He wasn't broke (poor).

I am not interested in arguing, I do not want to get into a debate about it, but I am very interested in your proof. Please provide it for me.

 

The poor were allowed to glean.

Lev 19:9 'Now when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the very corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest.
Lev 19:10 'Nor shall you glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather the fallen fruit of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the needy and for the stranger. I am the LORD your God.
The gleaning incident is recorded three times (Mat 12:1-12, Mark 2:23-24, and Luke 6:1-2
The Pharisees never got on to them for gleaning the crops as the poor were allowed to do under the law, also they never made him tithe of the gleanings he was getting either. They were trying to nail him for doing it on the Sabbath. Only the poor and strangers(travelers) were allowed to glean. Jesus never tithed. He was poor so that allowed the gleaning incident. Otherwise He was a thief. We know better than to say he was thieving. Even the Pharisees didn't accuse him of that when they confronted Him.

Mat 8:20 Jesus *said to him, "The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."

 

Outsider, gotta disagree with you here:

In Luke 2, the sacrifice Jesus' family made was two doves--a "poor persons' sacrifice."

In Matt. 8, you're missing the quite obvious point that Jesus had nowhere to lay His head. There's no other way to dance around it...he had no place.

In Matt. 17, Jesus used miraculous means to obtain the coin needed to pay the "temple tax." No other explanation for a mircale...other than he didn't have the money.

Jesus' tomb was "donated." (Mark 15)

2 Cor.8:9 Paul states of Jesus " being rich , yet for your sakes He became poor, so that through His poverty you might become rich"

Scripture clearly shows us that Jesus' immediate needs were met, but that He was certainly poor by our standards today, and was not well-off financially even for His time.

(Of course, He owns it all...but for us, He chose to give it up....thanks be to God!)

 

Tithe

Actually to be a follower of Christ is to committ more than 10%, he asks that we give him our all. Remember the rich young ruler? His sin was not that he didn't give, but his attitude. It isn't the 10% that is so important, it is our attitude, not just about money, but also about life in general, about others, about our committment to him.

How can I advise people to tithe? I can advise it as I see nothing in the New Testament that negates it or says a person should not tithe. If you are going to use the lack of a proof text in the New Testament as an argument not to tithe, than if you are intellectually honest you will never use the Old Testament as a proof to help support any theological opinion you hold. Also I have found that I cannot afford not to tithe.

There are times when a situation arises, sometime within the church I attend and sometimes outside the church, where I see monitary need is present. How can I refuse to help simply? Remember the good samaritan?

Do I not love God and my fellow Christians enough to give a miserly 10%?
Do I not trust God to help me.

I do not believe I need to find a proof text for every aspect of my life. But I do believe I need to live by Biblical principles in my life.

Did Christ say he came to do away with the law? No. Does that make me uncomfortable? In some areas, yes it does, i.e. like stoning noncompliant children.


You remember the old song that has the words, Take my lips and let them be Filled with messages for Thee Take my silver and my gold Not a mite would I with-hold

Do you sing that song? Are you telling the truth when you sing those words?

2 Cor 9:7

7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

 

Man, your house must be a mess with all the blood sacrifices. :thumbs: I sure hope you don't stumble in trying to keep up with all the other 612 laws. :jesus: I'm sure glad he fulfilled it all at the Cross. BTW, if your brother dies, are you prepared to marry his wife and raise kids for his namesake. Jesus didn't negate the levirate law either.

 

Would posting on the BB be a violation of the Sabbath (today)?

 

Scary isn't it. Guess that is why we pick and choose those laws that we want to use to emphasis our points and completely ignore others. What, you mean we humans are supposed to be consistant????? :BangHead: :laugh:

 

By CrabtownBoy's standards? Yes.

 

If tithing is so important for the Gentiles, why didn't the Jerusalem Council address it (Acts 15)?

 

Tithing

They were materialistic....maybe?:tonofbricks: