MA, Phd, etc.

I know Wheaton has a MA/PhD model, but it's selective and very expensive.

If you want a seminary PhD, you can sometimes sneak in the program with an MA in the content area, but that depends on the institution. The standard is the MDiv.

That being said, if you don't have church ministry experience, many of the Christian colleges out there may not be inclined to offer you a position. There is a glut of PhDs in Christian fields, and most of them are going to have an MDiv with church experience. The idea is that someone who will be training a pastor (even on the undergraduate level) needs some ministry experience.

The religious studies PhD will most likely not satisfy your desires to research specifically Christian issues. You might be able to take a comparative religions approach with certain aspects of Christian theology vis-a-vis Islamic or Jewish theology, but the thrust of the program will be totally different. Although they sound similar, theology and religious studies are not cut from the same cloth.

Now, if you don't mind this, then you're probably best served to go the secular route. Secular institutions won't care if you have any church experience because it's simply not relevant.

Be aware, though: you are seeking to walk into a field with an abundance of PhDs without full-time, tenure-track positions. Be careful. If church ministry isn't an option for you, you may be facing a struggle.

 

You are correct in viewing the MA as the more "academic" degree. The MDiv isn't a "terminal" degree at all; it's a professional degree. You'll find, though, that the vast majority of students in PhD programs at seminaries will have the MDiv. Some of them will follow the MDiv with a 30 hour ThM, which is the more "academic" masters, even more than the MA, because it requires an MDiv for entrance. Some people also go with the ThM to bolster their credentials to be more competitive for entrance into a PhD program.

The problem with the MA is that it puts you on uneven ground. Now, if you do really well, have high GRE scores, and excellent references (having articles published also helps), then you might be ok. You will, however, be competing for spots with people who have MDivs (90 hrs.) and some with ThMs (120 grad hours total) with a far shorter MA.

The problem with theological studies is that you cannot compare the field to other academic fields. It's a different beast entirely. Some seminaries won't even admit you unless you have an MDiv or its equivalent.

Why is this? I think there are a variety of factors in play, but the basic seminary degree is the MDiv. It provides the best opportunity for a student to get all of the "basics" (including languages) while providing some electives for depth. The seminary PhD is naturally built off of its basic degree.

Another matter: you asked if the practical would trump the academic. I'd say probably not. It's not that the practical would override publications, but you must bear in mind that you may be in the following situation:

You: MA, PhD, worked as grad assistant, published two articles and working on your first book

Another: MDiv, PhD, worked as grad assistant while also pastoring a local church for 5 years, published two articles and working on his first book

Which one is going to be more attractive for the institution focused on training ministers? The second. He has both the academic and the ministerial experience.

There are a lot of PhDs out there with experience and publications. Institutions don't have to choose between them.

For schools that don't have as much emphasis on the ministry angle of it, then you might be on equal footing. However, you have to recognize where the opportunities are. You won't have a lot of opportunities teaching Christian theology at a college that focuses primarily on academia. There simply isn't the interest there. A religious studies degree from a secular institution would help more in that area.

You said you would be willing to work in a "theological" field outside of the classroom other than the pastorate. What field did you have in mind here?

 

I would suggest Wheaton College's MA in Biblical Exegesis . You could then apply for admission to their PhD in Biblical & Theological Studies. See admissions information here. They have very tough PhD admissions standards so, if you go that route, make sure you cross all of your "t"s and dot all of your "i"s by verifying that each program would allow you to apply to the next. You should also have a backup PhD program. Maybe from a more secular university. Just my two cents worth.

 

I personally attended a small liberal arts college with 3 religion faculty members. Two had MDivs and one had an MA in Christian Education (the basic seminary degree for CE, not a thesis-based MA program). Now, beyond this, I can do some research.


http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=12442

That's the faculty listing for the School of Religion at Liberty. Most of the professors seem to have a seminary background (MDiv, MARE/MACE, ThM). There are a few professors, especially in the field of philosophy, that have university MAs and university PhDs.

http://www.wheaton.edu/Theology/Faculty/index.html

Wheaton seems to have more MA/PhD professors, which is not surprising given that the school itself offers the MA/PhD track without even offering the MDiv. Most of the professors in theology seem to have MDivs or ThMs, though.

http://www.biola.edu/academics/undergrad/bibstud/faculty/

Biola's faculty has a few with MAs, but MDivs and ThMs are more common.
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I hadn't expected to see this, but I noticed a large number of professors with multiple MAs.

These institutions probably aren't the norm, though, as they are larger institutions with significant graduate programs. Most Christian colleges are not going to have significant (if any) graduate programs.
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I think that you can become a theologian with a position without an MDiv or being a pastor. You just need to go to the right schools with a similar philosophy. For example, Wheaton College would be a good fit because they do not offer an MDiv. Their PhD program is less likely to discriminate against an applicant without an MDiv.

Even Harvard, for instance, maintains a distinction in their doctoral programs. To be admitted to the ThD through the Divinity School, you must have an MDiv or equivalent. For the PhD through the graduate school, a master's isn't even required, although you probably won't be accepted without one.

Simply put, you need to have an "eye" on which kind of PhD program you are seeking. Some require MDivs, some don't.

Another factor to consider: Do you have a BA in the field? If not, then the MDiv would probably be the better option. It would certainly be easier to "ramp up" to doctoral studies. Without a strong background in the field, an MA may not even be an option. Most programs have prerequisites.

 

Have you considered the International Baptist Theological Seminary in Prague, Czech Republic, [IBTS]. They are accredited through the University of Wales and so your study is in the European method .... lots of independent research. This means you can continue to live in the States the large majority of the year and only go to Prague during what they call 'intensives'. Intensives are one to to weeks of meeting with your advisor, attending lectures and continuing your research. The library at IBTS is the
largest English language theological library in Europe.

From their home page:

You might like to check it out.

www.ibts.eu

 

==If history is an interest you could get a MA in History or Church History and then do a "secular" PhD in History doing your research dissertation on a Church History topic. Then you could teach in any format you could find a job in. Trust me, what has been said about jobs in academic circles being hard to find is 100% true. It almost comes down to being in the right place at the right time.

MA History programs are a dime a dozen. Most state universities have those programs. MA Church History is a bit tougher to find. However I do know that Liberty University's MA Religious Studies has a Church History concentration. As I already mentioned, Wheaton College has a good program in Church History. However doing a "secular" MA History and PhD History would probably do just fine. Do your research on a Church History topic. That is what I am doing. My thesis is on the Puritans and King Philip's War. So if History is your interest, that maybe a great route.

Btw, Liberty University has launched their MA History program. For the Fall '08 semester only you can apply and be accepted without GRE scores. Click HERE for information.

 

Also, if you wouldn't mind "double dipping" so to speak, then you might want to look into the option of taking multiple MAs (or at least an MA plus 18 grad hours in another discipline).

For instance, you might get an MA in Ancient history, an MA in NT, then a PhD in history, and you could teach both history and NT on the college level. Ditto for any other field where you have at least 18 graduate hours. The PhD in history gives you more "mileage" in the academic world, though, and if you need to take a position at a secular school, every school out there has history profs.

 

==Well it depends upon your area of interest. For me, my area of interest is early American Church History and early American History (mainly 17th century). So the two fields go together. There is history, theology, and politics all through that period of history. Of course that period is not unique. I can think of major historical and religious events in American History that changed a generation. Your area of interest maybe Ancient History. In that case you could focus your research on some aspect of early Christianity. There are many ways to marry History and Theology. You could do that at the MA and PhD level. If that is really your interest.

==Difficult? Yes. Impossible? No. After all, I did and if I can do it anyone can do it. It is all about being prepared with the best education, making connections, and then being in the right place at the right time. You may have to do adjunct work at two or three schools, you may have to work at a museum or historical site, you might even have to teach in a high school. However if you are prepared the struggle will pay off at some point. For me I love to teach. So community college is perfect for me. Others love research, writing, and teaching, so research universities are perfect for them. It is all about what you want to do and what the Lord has called you to do (hopefully the two are the same).

==Those articles are interesting but I don't put too much stock in those things. It all depends upon who you are and where you are. Small schools are often over looked in the national numbers. For example. I know of a history department at a small state university that was looking to hire a Civil War Historian. It took them over a year to fill the position. Why? Nobody was applying. There are jobs out there, it is just a matter of finding them. The article states that the job outlook for historians is somewhat good, and I agree. I know community colleges have a hard time filling positions (mainly adjunct). So while it is tough getting your foot in the door, once you do get your foot in...you are in.

==I got a MAR from Liberty University and I have no trouble getting it accepting by state Universities (etc). Six of my church history hours were transfered into my MA History program. Six hours is the maximum number of transfer hours. Granted I am not at an ivey league school or anything like that, but it is a state university. The community college system of North Carolina has also accepted my degree from Liberty University. I guess it just depends upon what you are comfortable with. If you would not be comfortable going to Liberty, if you have doubts about that, then you probably should not go to Liberty.

Hope that helps!