Topics not touched by preachers in the pulpit

I think the 501 c3 restrictions are being misrepresented here.

This is a description of a 501 c3 organisation.

Churches are not allowed to campaign. None of the topics listed in the posts above will cause a church to lose tax exempt status if they are preached without any political campaigning involved.

Here is a site that goes through the ins and outs of the 501 c3 in layman FAQ style. Pew Forum: Politics and the Pulpit 2008

 

That's what the printed guidelines says, but HOW has the Supreme Court and the IRS interpreted it?

Bob Jones University v. United States was decided May 24, 1983 in an 8-1 decision with majority opinion written by Warren E. Burger, and joined by William J. Brennan, Byron R. White, Thurgood Marshall, Harry A. Blackmun, John Paul Stevens, and Sandra Day O'Connor. The Court, speaking through Burger, read a "common law" public interest requirement into the statute governing tax-exempt charitable status, and cited Congress' refusal to intervene as proof that they approved of the IRS's construction of the statute. (they stripped Bob Jones of thier tax-exempt status)

This means that what ever the COMMON LAW of society is, that will be the barometer of how 501(c)(3) "churches" are measured. So as the moral fiber of society falls farther into the depths of accepting sin, churches will have to comply. So preaching that ISLAM is false, SODOMY is sin, SAME SEX MARRIAGE is violating God's Word, that PREMARITAL SEX and living together as a married couple but not actually married IS WRONG, or that Government funded ABORTION is MURDER will VIOLATE this "common law" interpretation of the IR Code. There is coming a day that because of the "common law public interest" IRS interpretation - and Supreme Court agreement - a church can have thier tax exempt status REVOKED if they don't comply.

Again it is AGAINST THE LAW (not God's Law, but the IRS) for a preacher to inform his members from the pulpit or in church printed material, how HE is voting in an election. Not saying how THEY should vote, just to say how HE is voting IS A VIOLATION of IR Code.

This was a landmark case that effectively requires 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organizations (churches too that are 501(c)(3) organizations, which most are) to comply with overriding public policy. So as society goes so must the 501(c)(3) churches conform to what is socially "acceptable"

 

Thanks for bringing this case to my attention. I think it needs be stated that BJU was not revoked from 501(c)(3) status from preaching about anything but for having a policy of denying admission to those interracially married or those who advocated interracial marriage. The case law used to justify the ruling was Goldsboro Christian Schools, Inc. v. United States in 1971 which prevented Christian private schools from denying admission of non-white students.

It sounds like a civil rights issue to me and may one day extend to homosexuals. But I don't think it is about what one can preach. So while you may lose your status one day for not allowing homosexuals into your church, I don't think the case history suggests you will lose your status for preaching against homosexuality. Maybe that may change one day, I don't know.

Yes, his using the puplit or church printed material to declare his views is properly seen as campaigning. He is allowed to voice his opinion on campaigns as long as he is speaking in a capacity where he is not representing the views of the church. I think that is fair.

 

So it seems you don't care that the IRS can control what a preacher can say EVEN how he is going to vote. Also it WILL happen that preaching against ANYTHING that conflicts with "over riding public plicy" (i.e. sodomy, islam, same sex marriage, government subsidized genocide of unborn babies, ungodly behavior with political leaders, Jesus is the ONLY way of salvation, the Bible is the ONLY source of Gods Word, etc.) will be gounds for a 501(c)(3) not for profit church to be stripped of thier tax exempt status.

We will see government pressure Bible preaching churches to STOP preaching against issues I mentioned above and the list will grow. Soon it will be against "over riding public policy" to call a SINNER a SINNER!! Preachers will have to declare (or loose that tax exemption) that Jesus is not the ONLY way to heaven, just ONE of the ways because saying he is the ONLY way will not be "public common law policy" in the future.

God haters want to control and silence the TRUTH of the Bible and as long as churches file as a 501(c)(3) tax exempt organization, the controls are going to get more rigid, not less.

 

You were trying to appeal to case history. I showed you that case history does not show the IRS taking away tax exempt status for anything that has been preached except when it is campaigning as explicitly stated in the law.

 

"except when it is campaigning as explicitly stated in the law"

So MAN'S LAWS have priority above the Bible over the Lord's Church?

When "the law" (the IRS and Supreme Court rulings) explicity states that a 501(c)(3) not for profit organization (church) can loose their exemption if they teach, preach or print materials against "over riding public common law policy" (the Bob Jones Case) in regards to islam, sodomy, baby genocide, Jesus is the Only way and not just one of the ways to heavan, sin, premarital fornication etc. then I guess churches MUST comply, because that is the law, right?

Churches must submit FIRST to mans laws and then the Bible second. When they conflict I guess you better do what "than man" says.

Case law is clear and the Supreme Court ruled that these "tax exempt" 501(c)(3) organizations MUST comply to "over riding public common law policy". Let me ask is socially acceptable behavior and beliefs getting closer to the Bible or farther away?

Just hold on and see what will be "allowed" subject matter and what will NOT be allowed for 501(c)(3) organizations in the near future. As a note "allowed" means legal. "The man" wants to STIFLE the TRUTH of the Bible, not proclaim it!!

 

You show me the bible verses where we are commanded to campaign for politicians on the pulpit, and I will show you this one.

Even if there was a verse that commanded campaigning for politicians, it is simply a matter of dropping your tax exempt status to obey God's command. Is that persecution or a budgetary decision?

 

gd,

Obviously we are not commanded to campaign, BUT is it forbidden in the Bible for a pastor to inform his people how HE is going to vote in an election? By IRS rules a pastor CAN NOT do that, does the BIBLE prohibit it?

Does that apply to INDIVIDUAL Christians as citizens of a civilized society or to the "eclessia"? If that does then you CAN NOT support missionaries in countries where Christianity is against the law.

Jesus Christ is the head of His church NOT "Ceasar".

Its getting late...we need to crash bro!! (LOL!!)

 

Then you shouldn't have problems with the IRS rules.

Most of the laws of our society are not in the bible.

A pastor is an individual Christian.

This is a good example of where God's commands to preach the good news have priority over man's laws. There are plenty of verses to support this command but none to support that we are commanded to campaign for politicians as you agree.

I'm in Australia so isn't dinner time yet. G'night

 

Back to the original topic:

I've never heard a sermon, or even a Sunday School lesson, on Genesis 38, although I taught the lesson on that very chapter last Sunday in Sunday School. (We're doing a series on the parts of Genesis that most preachers skip.)

 

I never said that a pastor is commanded to campaign for someone, all I said was does the government have the AUTHORITY over the Lord's Church to make a law that a pastor is PROHIBITED to inform the members how HE is going to vote in an election? Do mans laws have ANY AUTHORITY over His Church? Well if you're a 501(c)(3) the IRS DOES have authority.

 

Yep. God gave it to man as stated in Romans 13:1-2. His church is made up of individual Christians who are to be in subjection to the authorities he established.

 

Well then, there ya go, you believe that the government can and does have authority over His church.

I realize that Christians as individual citizens are bound by the laws of man (Romans 13). You believe those laws DO pertain to the Lords Church and that the government can CONTROL what preachers can preach on. When Jesus said to render to Ceasar what is Ceasar's and to God what is God's, YOU believe the Lord's Church IS Ceasar's, I guess. Also to be consistant you CAN NOT establish a church or witness to the lost in a country where it is strictly forbidden by mans law.

I'm glad that the Christians of yesteryear who stood on the Bible and gave their life and blood didn't believe that!! Christians stood up to tyrants that attempted to control the Lord's Church through out history. Read "Fair Sunshine" the story of the Scottish Covenanters that STOOD UP to government oppression.

No, the CHURCH IS NOT CEASAR'S it is the LORD JESUS CHRIST that is its KING NOT GOVERNMENT

 

Dont'cha reckon you're putting words in people's mouths just a wee bit here?

 

rbell,
Well maybe a LITTLE, more "reading between the lines" I guess.

 

Yah know... I began with a "12 week" series on basic Bible doctrine that lasted 18 months when I began this pastorate 4 years ago. Then on Wed we began studying Romans while I began Ephesians o Sunday. Now we are studying Galatians on Sunday and going to look at the theology of the reformers on wednessday beginning soon.

Before this I was more free-will, but in studying through these books in depth, I am more convinced of Sovereign Grace. Not ZZCalvin's grace but that of God. The stuff is there, whether we like it or not.