Born of God

You give examples where God for some reason passed a judgement upon an individual, not all of mankind.

Your scripture only tells of death being passed upon all mankind, but who had the power to pass that death, Adam or God. It was because of "one man", but that does not say that one man did the "passing". Do you believe little children are going to hell, and if not, why?

Jesus could not be born of Joseph, because God, not Adam, passed a judgement on that bloodline, for a specific purpose, not eternal death.

So, you either accept scripture or you deny it.

Eze 18:20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Did Cain and Abel bear the iniquity of Adam, or did God because of Adam's sin, pass death upon Cain and Abel?

Also, how can a soul sin that is already dead?

Did Adam have the power to pass death upon all mankind?

Who formed you, God or Adam?

Deu 32:18Of the Rock [that] begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

Don't your sins count for nothing.

Rom 6:23For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I will not be responsible for my children's sins, when sin is "imputed", for they will be of age then. If I suffer over anyone else's doings, it will be in this life, for in life eternal, I will not answer for anyone's sin. Period.

Any contamination I may do, I will suffer for it in this life, and it is "my wrong" that I suffer for. If someone commits sin because I tell them to, I will suffer for telling them to do it, but they will suffer for the sin of committing it.

When you receive a "blood" tranfusion, do you then have the "sin" of the donor???

Why did God say, I give you your breath and you live, I take it and you die. Why did He not say, I take your blood and you die, being the blood is the life of the body?

When the mortician removes all your blood, does he remove all your sin also?

When God takes your breath, is there sin still in the body, the blood is there?

You take notice all those examples you give, even when God told Abraham, his seed shall be blessed. Who was going to be doing the "blessing", Abraham or God?

Is it against BB rules to mention Bro Bob's name? Just want to make sure I follow the rules of BB.

 

HP: Interesting question. Very interesting.

 

Are you smart enough to answer if Adam passed a "still born" upon a baby?

Death comes in many forms because Adam sinned, but Adam does not have the power to take your breath.

Fear not man, who can destroy the body. Adam, can't do that.

You better believe the questions are tough and you are not answering them. Does Adam take your breath. How come God said He was the one who "formed" you. It was not Adam, for sure. Adam brought death, God passed it unto all mankind. The only reason Adam brought death is because "God" said if you eat you shall surely die. You think Adam, just brought death on his own. Think man! God said if you eat you shall die.

Is your life in the hands of Adam, or God??????????

If God had not said, "you shall surely die", would Adam have died???????????????

 

I am not in a quandary, you just need to broaden your mind somewhat.

I have stated its because Adam sinned, but Adam did not pass death upon the rest of us, God appointed it unto us, because of Adam's sin.

If God had not appointed death unto us, I don't care how many times Adam sinned, that would of been the end of it. God said I have formed you in your mother's womb. Get it?

You now have changed to "seed" instead of "blood", since DHK has returned and called it "seed".

 

What is the curse of sin and who passes that curse upon mankind?:thumbs:

 

Going by your definition:
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
--Sin is in direct relation to the law.

Now:
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
--The law condemns. It condemns all who cannot keep all of it from life unto death. One sin during one's lifetime is enough to condemn one. The truth is, we sin every day, and therefore are cursed by the law.

However:
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
--Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law. This relates to our salvation only. He died for our sins. He hath redeed us who beleive in him, and hath forgiven our sins. We have redemption, in that we have salvation. But this does not now refer to our bodies, at least not yet.

Romans 8:22-23 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
--We wait for the redemption of our bodies. They have not yet been redeemed. The suffer, die, decay, get old, suffer sickness, deteriorate, etc. The curse of death still remains. It remains on us, and it remains on this earth, and it will not be totally lifted until the Lord comes again and sets up His Kingdom.
--Note: "the whole creation groans and travails in pain until now." That refers to the entire world. The sin of Adam affected the entire universe. Animals could no longer live in harmony one with another, as they had before. The earth started bringing forth thistles, and mosquitoes problably started being parasitic, drawing out people's blood. The curse OF GOD UPON MAN began all of this. It was a result of Adam's disobedience. His death was both physical and spiritual. The nature of the death, because of sin, was passed from generation to generation. No man would live forever; though it would be conceivable that Adam and Eve could have, had they not eaten of the fruit of that tree. But they made the wrong choice. Their choice affected the rest of the generations of the world.

Because Adam sinned, we all inherit a sin nature from Adam. This is what the Bible teaches. This is what the Fall is all about. Go back and read Genesis 3. "In Adam's Fall, we sinned all." McGuffey's reader's teaches its children.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

 

Are you sure you know which "death" you are speaking of?

This is the natural death, that God appointed unto "all" men, that is why babies die.
Hbr 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

This is the second death and without repentance, man will be cast into a LoF.
Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Adam was not or is not God. Only God has control over life or death.

Rom 14:7
For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8
For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

Are you really saying that God does not have the control, whether we live or whether we die??????

 

You need to get your ducks in a row there Steaver!

There is a natural death and there is a second death.

Babies don't have sin, but the natural death is upon them and the second death comes when they do sin. The soul that sinneth shall die, remember?

You can escape the second death, after it been pronounced upon you by, repenting and being born again.

There is no escape from the natural death, for it is an appointment of God. Not Adam!

You don't believe it was God who pronounced the appointment of death upon mankind????

You don't believe it is God, who gives us our breath and we live, He takes it and we die????

You must believe Adam is God!


expansion, greaaaat!!!

 

First of all, when we sin, the second death is pronounced upon us and if we do not receive the blood of the Lamb, we will stand before God and be cast into the LoF. We however can escape that death, through believe in Christ.

The natural death, was pronounced upon Adam by "GOD". and be cause Adam sinned, God gave the appointmentof death upon "ALL" mankind, including babies.

Adam, did not pass anything, he is the one who sinned. God is the one who made the appointement of death upon all mankind, which is the natural death and has nothing to do with "wages of sin is death". That passage and the others are talking of the second death.

Again, you are making Adam God, as if he had the power to send death upon all mankind.

Life and death, belong to God and no one else.


It is because of Adam's sin, that God appointed unto man once to die. Adam did not do it. He did not have the power to do it.

Rom 14:8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

Hbr 9:27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:


If your sins did not bring the second death upon you, why did you need the blood of Christ? It sure is not going to save you from the natural death. Why does it say "after death" the judgement, or second death.

Is your life in the hands of Adam, or God. Please answer.

Deu 6:2That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

Who prolongs or shortens anyone's life. Is it the seed of Adam???????

 

What you know, the man has had his eyes annointed with eye salve, finally. He has seen the light, that God put a curse on "all" mankind. What a hard head. :thumbs:

Of course, we could start a whole new debate, when these deaths take place in a man.

 

GE:
Certainly! But certainly it's not our lifestyle! Certainly we hate that and any other sin in us for as long as we shall live; we combat it, -- and by the grace of God we DO enjoy victory through Jesus Christ over whichever sin! I know that fall again and again, even were it just in my heart. But I also know The Love Of Christ that is stronger than any adverse tendencies.

Every day I pray a hundred times, Lord, put my thoughts straight; put them back on course. Instantaneously, constantly, but never, what I really will; it happens, but I don't want to do it --- Paul knew the same battle -- Romans 6, 7777, 8

 

That is too simplistic a view. There are more than just two deaths. Death means separation. Eternal death is separation from God eternally. Natural or physical death is separation of the spirit from the body.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

What does the Bible say about death?
1.There is a natural or physical death (James 2:26)
2. There is a spiritual death for unbelievers (Eph.2:1)

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
--These believers, before they were saved were dead or separated from God. They were made alive by the Holy Spirit. All unbelievers are spiritually dead.

3. There is a spiritual death for believers (Psa. 66:18

Psalms 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:
--Sin separates the believer from God. He doesn’t lose his salvation, only his fellowship. Nevertheless he is still separated from God.
Death is separation.
A believer can be spiritually dead and will be until he confesses his sin (1John 1:9), and gets right with God. However his salvation will never be in question.

4. There is eternal death (Rom. 6:23)

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
--Here eternal death is contrasted to eternal life. This is not yet speaking of the Second Death or the L of F which is yet to come. This is present tense. When an unsaved person dies now they have eternal death, or will be separated from God for all eternity. That is a promise from God

5. There is the Second Death (Rev. 20:10-15)
--This is God’s final sentence on all unsaved when they will all be cast into the Lake of Fire. It is the final pronouncement; the final judgment.

In each and every case death means separation. It is separation from God.

Again (see above); your approach is too simplistic. They may not have sinned deliberately, but they do have a sin nature inherited by Adam. And before you say it, it was God that set that process in motion as a consequence of Adam’s sin. Of course Adam has no power. So let’s not make any foolish statements about “Adam’s power” that no one but you have made.
The sin nature is inherited, and it is inherited specifically through the man. “As by one man sinned, and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned.”

Here are some facts you need to consider
First: Does one sin because he is a sinner, or
Is one a sinner because he sins?

The answer to those questions are crucial. If you deny the first (as it seems that you do), you fall into the heresy of pelagianism. You need to read your American church history, particularly that of “New England Theology.” It began about the time of Jonathan Edward Jr. and climaxed with famed Evangelist Finney, who became the president of Oberlin College.

Finney did not believe in a sin nature. He believed that one became a sinner only if he sinned. Thus sinless perfection was attainable. It was also possible with such a theology to attain a perfect community of saints, since one didn’t have to sin, and no had the sin nature.

Finney was a heretic. And yet it was from Finney that we get our long protracted invitations, the “mourner’s bench,” etc. Finney saw nothing miraculous or supernatural in a revival. It was all philosophical. Therefore he would devise any means possible to get the sinner to the altar. The ends justified the means.
Your seemingly denial of the sin nature is a branch of Unitarianism, which New England Theology is, and is Pelagianism, an ancient heresy. Study your own American church history and find out where you stand.

You can also become born into the family of God, which formerly you were not a part of. Thus the command: You must be born again.

There is no escape from spiritual death, from the Adamic sin nature either.

God has pronounced both spiritual and physical death upon all men. You must be born again.

 

Seems you agree in many areas, but want to make it difficult to understand for the list.

As you believe the natural death can come at anytime, I also believe the spiritual death will come when you come to know to do good and do it not.

The soul that sinneth shall die.

I got more scripture on my belief, that you do not have an answer for.

I believe both the spiritual death and the natural death are pronounced upon all mankind, but as the natural death comes later in life in most cases, the spiritual death comes when you come to know God and glorify Him not as God, then the "soul that sinneth" dies that spiritual death.

How many spiritual deaths do you believe is pronounced upon mankind???

At least you do know who has the "power" to pronounce death!