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Did Christ atone for unbelief?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Oct 28, 2008.

  1. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    I think you've got some great points, and I'm not trying to avoid or dodge your quiestions. However, I need some clarification from you. Do you believe that God sending men to hell is an act of God's wrath? I'm not asking you if it completely satisfies it....I'm asking if the act itself is wrathful.

     
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I don't mind if you ignore it...it wasn't posed to you. JC did in fact imply man is paying for their sin in hell, as the atonement does not apply to them.
     
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Apparently it will never be answered, period :rolleyes:
    What does "historical baptist" have to do with anything, btw? Stick to the topic, please...
     
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Why do you need clarification from him? He asked you the question. His question was easy to understand. I understand tough questions are hard to answer, and theya re usually tabbed as "ludicrous" and "ridiculous" by those who can't answer them, or refuse to answer them, but try just this once to answer smaimj.
     
  5. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Dr. Bob has done the exact same thing to skypair and myself, so I guess all rules are out if an administrator can get away with such garbage.
     
  6. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    See what happens when you take words out of context! I was saying that you didn't have the godly wisdom you thought you had -- you only had high self esteem! :laugh: And boy!! I don't know anyone on BB that beats YOU for high self esteem!

    And, of course, you ignored the issues raised in the rest of the post which would have further made my case for me! :tear:

    skypair
     
    #126 skypair, Nov 3, 2008
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  7. mark1

    mark1 New Member

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    Rom 6:23For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
    A good day's pay for a good days work.

    If dying and never die in torment in not paying for your sins, I don't know what is. You will never get it paid off, but you will be paying for it.

    Deu 23:21When thou shalt vow a vow unto the LORD thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the LORD thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee.

    All rules are not out for everyone, unfortuantly, you can not reach them to tell them so.
     
    #127 mark1, Nov 3, 2008
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  8. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Folks,

    I think we ought to agree on what "atonement" means cause there's a lot of issues being dragged in that have nothing to do with being "reconciled" to God -- which is what I believe atonement means.

    Another way to look at atonement would be to see Christ as our only "Mediator." Our wisdom and God's wisdom are "light years" apart before we are saved. It is only in Christ that God and man can begin to "merge" our disparate wisdoms into God's wisdom. An "atoning sacrifice" is one that puts us right with God.

    So in atonement, we are NOT looking at propitiation (satisfying our sin debt with God through the blood of Christ) -- we are talking about "being right with God." We might even call it the "confession" part of "confess with thy mouth and believe in thine heart." In fact, every time we confess to God, we are not putting our sins up for forgiveness. We are, rather, trusting the atoning work of Christ to draw us into agreement with God's view of our sin.

    And it now occurs to me that, if we look at atonement the way i just have, we might well agree with the Calvies regarding "limited atonement." Christ certainly doesn't "mediate" nor make unbelievers "right with God." Atonement requires 2 "parties" and an issue upon which they MUST agree in order to operate.

    skypair
     
    #128 skypair, Nov 3, 2008
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  9. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    Thank you Mark. That is my answer to the "question" I supposedly haven't answered. I've asked several times, and I'll ask it again...If every single persons sins have been atoned for, why do some people go to hell? According to my opponents in this thread, unbelief is not a sin, and there are people who are going to hell for something other than sin. Is not unbelief a sin of omission? Did not Christ command us to believe? If we ignore His command, how can this not be sin?
     
  10. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    If disbelief is brought to belief then yes it is paid by His blood. If unbelief continues until death then it is unrepentant of therefore judgment awaits the sinner.

    Yeah I know, Johnny come lately. :tonofbricks:
     
  11. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Every sacrifice had to be BROUGHT to the altar BY the sinner before any "at-one-ment" could be reached, jc. So Christ didn't set everyone at one with God because, as you say, they OMMITTED to bring the Sacrifice they KNEW and BELIEVED was the correct one to the altar!

    Do you see how atonement doesn't have anything to do with the wrath of God and propitiation and all to do with the love of God? His accepting of us in His Son?

    skypair
     
  12. mark1

    mark1 New Member

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    You can't even begin to repent with "unbelief". It covers all sin. Why was part of Israel broken off, and how can they get back, if they still do not believe?

    Jhn 8:24
    I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.
    Rom 11:20
    Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
     
  13. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    So God is eternally unpaid for an eternal offense committed against an eternal God?
     
  14. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    Eternal suffering doesn't mean God is eternally unpaid. I don't think anyone here thinks that it does mean that.
     
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    It has to mean that. Since only one sin sends us to hell, who pays for the gazillion other sins the reprobate commit? If man is paying for his sin, he's not paying for ALL of his sins, and an infinte God goes eternally unpaid. This is why only Christ could pay for sin...not us.
     
    #135 webdog, Nov 3, 2008
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  16. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    People go to hell because they are unforgiven and God cannot abide sin. Believers get into heaven because their sins are covered by Christ.

    I don't see how people can pay for any their sins. God's wrath is satisfied in Christ; people who do not trust Christ go to hell because they appear to God on Judgment Day in their sins and He cannot abide sin.

    Just one possible response to your question.
     
  17. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Marcia, but if the wrath of God is satisfied on a sinner then why does he still go to hell?
    What is the purpose of hell?

    I believe it is true that a sinner can never atone for his own sins. If he could then his punishment would not be eternal.

    If by going to hell he could pay for his sins, then after so many years (for sake of argument lets say the number he lived on earth) he would no longer have guilt.
    But that is not biblical.
    Is hell punishment or not?
     
    #137 Dale-c, Nov 3, 2008
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  18. mark1

    mark1 New Member

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    They will never pay enough to get out!!!
    It will be eternal, how else could it be, if they will be dying and never die. You all are thinking of it as pay a little each day, but won't be no days, just eternity. He will receive his punishment once, but its for eternity, no day after day. You are letting time interfere with your punishment.
     
    #138 mark1, Nov 3, 2008
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  19. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    jcjordan said
    Let's go back to the "murderer-put-to-death" analogy. The man who is put to death by the state for murder is most certainly being punished for his crime. On top of this, God sends the murderer to hell and he is again punished for his crime. I don't think there is any question that punishment is involved. The question is, is the murder recompensing his victim or God for the crime? Again, he is not recompensing the victim because the victim is still dead. He is not recompensing God for it is impossible for man to repay God for his sin. Which leads us back to my question (which though you insist you are not avoiding, you have yet to answer), who pays God for man's sin?

    Still waiting....
     
  20. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    ...then there is sin that is unpaid for? As I have already shown, one sin sends man to hell eternally, some even claim it's Adam's.
     
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