The Saddest Day in History!

Do you really believe that God's plan is so americocentric?

 

Worse than Pearl Harbor?

 

About the same. First the japs, and now obama, sank the Arizona.

 

Roger,

That's a great question. I have often wondered if we put too much stock in tying what happens here in the USA into Biblical prophecy.

 

despite the fact that we have some dumb leftists here in this forum, the CORRECT viewpoint is posted here. Good reading for Christians...

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=310956

 

"How do we know this isn't part of God's plan?"

It is and that is what gives us peace to move forward, but it does not forbid us from decrying what our nation has done. God works His work in spite of man but when His people assist in the other sides works it is truly a sad day.

Have just studied the prophecy of the destruction of the temple in Mark and the reason for it being the rejection of God on earth. Many "believers" have set aside their God in their worship, living and mindset today. Dunno if this is judgment or not but it sure looks like it could be.

Then again God might change Obomba's heart tomorrow and we will see great blessing - dunno - don't know the good Lord's mind but am so glad He does :thumbs:

 

I think this election is the outcome of both the spiritual health of the nation and the political health of the nation.

Many could only see the election as between Bush haters and Republicans.
Some saw it only in terms of economics, the security they hold in jobs or in social programs. Some saw the election as strictly choices between pro-life and abortion. Some saw the election as between war in Iraq and no war. And, no doubt, a few saw it as a vote either along racial lines.... or for false assumptions of guilt over the sins of the fathers based on race.


Very few saw that no matter which of the major candidates they voted for, the leadership of both parties is carrying us in the direction of socialism and globalism, or maybe the masses don't care and are satisfied..... including the Christians within each camp.

Far too many of us have loyalties either with Republicans or Democrats. Far too many of us can face a ballot which has multiple names, or opportunities to write in a candidate.... but still see only two choices, as though blind, and foster this lie upon others who might be willing to think differently if there were enough who spoke the truth....... and the truth was that in most states, people DID have choices beyond the 2 parties but didn't take it.

Why do we refuse to choose a candidate that is not a Republican nor a Democrat?
Is is really because we think a third party is not electable? How can they be without someone being the first to cast their vote in hopes that another may follow, and another, and another, etc.? Is it because we think they do not possess the qualifications? The Constitution sets the bar low for qualifications.... and it is God who gives wisdom to those who seek him, so could it really be that we don't trust God to give wisdom to leadership? Is is because we are afraid of ridicule? This is so inherently false fear as the ballot is secret and a vote cast in secret is still a vote so noone knows except a voter tells another. Is is because a third party vote may spoil the vote for the 'lesser of two evils' when an election is close? In such case, one is voting on the lottery system and not with the choices which they were given, and their vote is not making any difference in the leadership nor direction for the two major parties.

When I view the election returns in my county and see that about 56 thousand votes casts for McCain, and about 20 thousand votes casts for Obama, and 195 votes cast for Chuck Baldwin and the Constitution Party.... I know that my little vote did not break the Presidential Election. And I know that however small the number may be, in this county there are 194 other souls so identified with convictions similar to mine that I have little to concern myself about where they stand if we could all stand together. And I know from talking personally to many others that they had agreement with me except that they thought their vote wouldn't have counted if they cast for 3rd party.

Well, as things now stand..... Their vote didn't make an iota's worth of difference for the direction of either party, and neither did their differences with either party. And their difference with their parties was silenced when they voted with the masses.

 

Agreed. There will still be problems with or without Obama, McCain, Bush, Clinton, Pelosi, and on and on.

I wonder what God thinks when He sees us freak out, as if the Gospel has lost power?

I refuse to be afraid...and I certainly refuse to act as if the good news has been weakened.

 

Agreed. I remember how some people here on this very board condemned Jerry Falwell for saying 09/11 was God's judgment on America. Well, he was speaking prophetically after all. 09/11 was a wake up call to Christians and to America which was unheeded. The Obama win is God's judgment on this unrighteous nation and those who call themselves Christians but condone sodomy and killing millions of innocent babies, professing themselves wise, they became fools. (Romans 1)

I was going to wear all black to prayer meeting tonight, but changed my mind. It is God's will and we will suffer through it and He will give His Grace and Strength as He has for others. At least we don't have to go underground just yet, as other Christians have done and are doing even today. We have a little time left before the persecution begins in America.

 

Did you cut Romans 13:1-7 out of your Bible?

Do you think a sovereign God somehow became powerless and allowed someone to be elected president of the US without his knowledge, approval or against his will?

Guess again.

 

God's judgement, under the new covenant that came into place when Christ was resurrected, does not fall on "nations" or for that matter "countries" because they do not elect the "right" politicians to office. Romans 13 clearly says that whatever governing authorities are there hold their office because God put them there.

If you can show me, from the New Testament, and particularly from the words of Jesus, where the new covenant is between God and a country, rather than between God and an individual, I may think differently. But the fact of the matter is that God's judgement is upon all humankind, individually, because of our sin, not collectively as a nation. That only applied to Israel, and only under the old covenant. The only way to escape judgement for sin is to receive Jesus as your Lord and savior. And neither a nation nor a country can do that collectively. Only individuals can.

If you read a lot of these comments, and pay careful attention to what people are saying, you will come to the conclusion that there are many people here who are saying essentially the same thing that Obama's former pastor, Jeremiah Wright, said in that message from which those tiny soundbytes were taken. Wright was preaching that God was judging America because of its sin. He was calling the country's racism a sin. You are calling its election of someone whose politics you disagree with as a sin. I don't see the difference, especially if you listen to all of Wright's sermon and not just two lines from it.

 

Good point, but sadly many here believe just such a lie.

My bible tells me:

1 Tim 2:1-3
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
(KJV)

Prov 21:1
1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.
(KJV)

Dan 5:21
21 ... the most high God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will.
(KJV)

 

I bet you cut the part out of your Bible where it says God will judge the nations.

 

Cliff B, this is a wild exaggeration.

peace to youraying:

 

According to the NT writers they were living in the end times. Therefore, all time from then until now and until the Lord returns is the end times.

 

No, it's still there, but it is interpreted in its context. Find me a New Testament passage that says anything about God judging nations in the new covenant. Judgement is on all people in all nations who have not received Jesus as their Lord and Savior. "Nations" cannot do that.

The Biblical definition of "nation" (if you want, we can go all through all of the Hebrew foundations of it) refers to the people who are the descendents of a specific founder, such as Israel being descended from Israel (aka Jacob,) or Moab being the descendants of Esau, etc. The United States is not a "nation" in the Biblical sense of the term, but is a country made up of people from many nations.

Under the new covenant, at least, according to I Peter 2:9-10, the people of God are all believers of every nation.

 

That is an excellent point that I had not considered before.

More for my pea sized brain to have deal with

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but my Bible tells me that God ordains the authority of our civil governments. Therefore, I tend to agree with Sister Sue regarding the election last night. God gave the American people the leader they asked to receive. His (BHO's) stated positions on several issues are clearly against the teaching of God's Word. We will see what will come of persuing a path in opposition of God.