Capital Punishment ...

So if you are corrent, then it would be wrong for a Christian to serve in the military. Is that how you see it?

 

An example in the context of salvation as is delineated in that verse.

 

I posted many pages ago in this thread that I thought the Acts 5 account of God's direct dealings with Ananias and Saphira was an evidence of how capital punishment works. What God did in this situation was create an example, a deterrent, to warn others not to do as these two deceivers did. God could have used this situation to show mercy upon those who do wrong, but He chose a just capital punishment.

I fully agree.

 

In Act 5, two people were not executed by the state, they dropped dead....period. That may be divine action, but it is not capital punishment.

Cheers,

Jim

 

With all due respect, I see it as capital punishment. They didn't just drop dead - God killed them. God is the author of just government and examples of a just death penalty are given in both OT and NT.

 

Capital punishment is an act of law, enacted by a state government.

If what you say is true, it is not the God I serve. Certainly not the God of the Bible. The scriptures, especially NT scriptures refer to the state's responsibility and that we are to obey the state............Hence, it is up to the state to change the laws, and abolish captial punishment.

Cheers,

Jim

 

That is a different subject. Start another thread if you like.

peace to youraying:

 

If you want to use Acts 5 as the example of how the death penalty should work, then I am in agreement.

God killed them. God didn't use Christians to kill them. God didn't use the government to kill them. God didn't use other men to kill them. God didn't use a sword, or a rope, or an electric chair or lethal injection.

God didn't need anyone's help to execute the death penalty. God alone can do that because God alone has the perfect wisdom and knowledge and righteousness to know when the death penalty in appropriate.

peace to youraying:

 

If I'm not mistaken (which seems to happen more frequently after my odometer passed the 62.5 mark) I think the pro-con of Christians serving in the military was a topic that has already been rehashed some 2 or three years ago.

 

It's the exact same subject. You said "Let God use the ungodly to kill. Let Christians love with perfect patience." But I understand your need to dodge logic. You're unable to separate what God says to us as individuals and the authority and responisibility God gives to society/government.

 

Well...no, it's a completely different subject.

Subject 1: Death penalty: Should Christians participate?

Subject 2: Military service:Should Christians participate?

See, it is two different topics. Start another thread if you like so we don't derail this thread.

peace to youraying:

 

The subject, which you can't seem to grasp, is the differnce between what God expects of an individual Christian and the rights/repsonsibilities/authority given to society at large. (i.e. government) But since it's going over your head I'll drop it.

 

You must not be reading the posts in the thread. That is the very distinction that I have been making all along.

I have stated repeatedly that God uses the ungodly to punish others. God then punishes the ungodly for their deeds as well.

Christians should not participate in or support the death penalty. We are called to be different. We are called to love with perfect patience.

Let God use the ungodly to kill others. Let Christians love with perfect patience.

peace to youraying:

 

Okay, I see. Your view is that government should always be left to non-Christians so that we (Christians) will not ever have to participate in administering justice. You're okay with the death penalty as long as Christians don't support it and non-Christians carry is out.

 

Not exactly. We have a unique situation in this country in the way we participate in our government. Christians have many options to effect the way the death penalty is used/or not used in this country, and we should oppose it when we have the opportunity.

I would not say that I am "OK" with the death penalty as long as Christians don't support it.

I understand the reality that the death penalty is the law of the land. If all Christians in this country opposed the death penalty, we could do away with it. Until that happens, Christians should not participate in any way to support it.

Again, I have to mention this. Christians are setting a precedence with their support for the death penalty. It is becoming a steadfast institution within government.

Already, the government has expanded the use of the death penalty to include those who participated in a crime, but may not have been the actual person who killed someone. There are attempts to include crimes that do not result in death.

It doesn't take much imagination to see that kind of logic used against Christians in the future.

For example...the hate crime laws. Suppose a pastor preaches that God considers homose*uality an abomination. One of his members (who happens to be mentally ill) reads the O.T. and discovers that God has commanded that those who engage in such acts be stoned..i.e. killed. This member then kills several people he believes deserves it based on scripture.

Upon his arrest, he promptly tells the police that his pastor informed him that God wants homose*uals to be killed.

Prosecutors could charge the pastor as an accomplice who incited this mentally unstable person to kill. The pastor gets the death penalty as an accomplice to the murders. (end of example)

By supporting the death penalty today, many Christians are establishing the very institution that will put their children or grandchildren to death during the great tribulation.

peace to youraying:

 

When Christians participate in government and someone is given the death sentence for a crime it is not the Chrisitans who are carrying out the death sentence. Rather it is the government. But, for the bleeding heart this concept is hard to understand.

 

The concept that you cannot understand is that I would rather follow the teachings of my Lord, Jesus Christ, than to allow you and your ilk to sway me by calling me names.

Supporting the death penalty is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Christians are commanded to follow the example of our Lord and show mercy with perfect patience and love. Supporting the death penalty is contrary to that command.

Follow the world all you want. Rationalize the issue all you want. Support killing all you want. You and I will each give an account on the day of judgement.

As for me and my house, we will follow the Lord.

peace to youraying:

 

Following that logic, then God can imprison them too.

We should let all criminals, by your logic, roam free, waiting for divine punishment.

 

I don't recall calling anyone a bleeding heart by name. But, if the shoe fits.......

 

Actually it is not. But then you would need to define "perfect" to make your pint valid. God has always had perfect patience and yet he commanded the death penalty and committed it Himself. Where was His perfect patience with Annias ?