John Mac Aurthur on "Purpose Driven Life"

Macarthur is no Paul.

His new nature hated the very things he was doing...but the flesh doesn't hate sin. If you believe that believers don't enjoy sin, then there would be no sin in a believers life.

Here is where the doctrines of "sovereign grace" hit the wall. The Bible says when we are faithLESS He remains faithFULL. If it is up to us to maintain our salvation, nobody will be in Heaven. Repentance being a "gift" cracks me up...as if God needs to repent of Himself, and have faith in Himself.

Strange...because if it vexed his entire being (soul and flesh)...why did he stick around in the first place, and why did he have to be dragged out of the city? True, our righteous soul is vexed (see your Rom. 7:15 passage), but we can quench the Spirit. Lot did not display outwardly the "fruit" of being righteous. None of his actions ever allude to that fact he hated sin. It's a real stretch to gain that from the text.

 

Yes, all Christians will still sin from time-to-time, because we are born sinners. Our hearts are evil and corrupt.

However, if you are truly Justified by God, then there will be a change in your behavior. For some, the change will be faster than others. It may be gradual at first, and with high and low points, but the general trend should be upward toward holiness.

Will we ever achieve perfect holiness in this life? Nope, not until our death. Then Christ will help us achieve our glorification.

We need to pause and evaluate ourselves frequently to consider if we are moving toward being more like Jesus Christ.

Many Christians believe that if they say "Jesus, is my Lord and Savior", BOOM! we're done, heaven here I come!!!

That is not Biblical. That is a grand deception by the evil one. Don't fall for it!

Also, do we glorify God that little to think that He would grant us eternal life with Him, if we say some words, but don't do anything to show that we really trust Him and believe Him? Would you think that person was sincere?

Jesus said:

"You are my friends if you do what I command". - John 15:14

I am sure you are very familiar with this Scripture

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
​

"Aha", you might say! "It is by grace, through faith, not by works!!!" "I gotcha!"

...but read on...

"For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." - Ephesians 2:10

We are to do good works, because we are "God's workmanship" elected into Christ.

Now read: James 2:14-26

Shalom

 

True repentance is turning away from anything to Christ. The basic definition of repentance is a turning away from anything. One can repent from something he does not like and change direction to something else.

 

Fortunately I have not read Warren's book or any sequels.

Unfortunately the Gospel According to Warren is that preached in many Southern Baptist Churches. People [including children who cannot understand sin against a Holy God] are asked to believe certain facts about Jesus Christ, sometimes limited to the watered down facts of Warren. They then are declared Children of God and baptized into the Church.

I will repeat something I posted elsewhere:

John Dagg, a prominent Southern Baptist of the 19th Century, in his Manual of Theology [page 277] notes:

“In our natural state we are totally depraved. No inclination to holiness exists in the carnal heart; and no holy act can be performed, or service to God rendered, until the heart is changed. This change, it is the office of the Holy Spirit to effect.”

 

Have you ever heard a non-Christian ever say that they fully understood what happened at the end of the service? Not one of my friends or relatives knew what that was. Tha is the reason why it must be carefully explained and not just a ritual at the end of a service.

 

Amazing that you've not read what RW says, but still feel qualified to offer a critique of his work.

 

I was going to say the same thing. Never read any of his books...but knows the Gospel he preaches

 

The joy of the internet is that it provides people who have no authority or knowledge of a particular subject the perfect system for voicing their baseless opinions.

I just don't understand how someone who doesn't listen to, read, or have knowledge of someone's ministry beyond pure conjecture can offer a valid critique of that person and their presentation of the Gospel.

 

True. For one thing, Paul does not put me to sleep. But they preach the same Gospel: they bring "Good news, that you should turn FROM these vain things, unto a living God..."

No doubt. Exactly what Macarthur teaches. In His book the "Gospel According to Jesus"(20th anniversary edition), someone asks about the struggle with sin they have been having, and asks if that means they are not saved: Macarthur answers that the fact that they struggle with sin is excellent proof that they ARE saved: unsaved people don't tend to struggle with sin, they just give into it.

First, you take 2 Timothy 2:13 horribly out of context. Have you even read these scriptures, brother? I always have to ask this question, when someone posts this verse like this. Notice the verse in context...

2Ti 2:11 The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him;
2Ti 2:12 if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;
2Ti 2:13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful-- for he cannot deny himself.

Notice that the "faithfulness" it is speaking of here, is referring to His faithfulness to HIMSELF. It says if we deny Him He WILL deny US: for He cannot deny Himself. In other words, if we do not endure, we have no part with Him: for He is faithful to His righteous nature, and MUST deny us, if we deny Him. Notice from Vines, which is not exactly a "bastion of works righteousness"....

2Ti 2:13
If we believe not (εἰ ἀπιστοῦμεν)
Better, are faithless or untrue to him. Comp. Rom_3:3. In Pastorals only here.
Faithful (πιστὸς)
True to his own nature, righteous character, and requirements, according to which he cannot accept as faithful one who has proved untrue to him. To do this would be to deny himself.

This scripture is saying exactly the opposite of what you are trying to say...

Not so. Lot demonstrated righteousness in His desire for mercy, in His obeying God's commands, etc. Plus, since the small amount of scripture we have is not exactly an autobiographical account, we can hardly make the far reaching conclusion you are trying to make. The Bible calls Lot "righteous"...I think we should just take it's word for it, instead of trying to "allegorize" his righteousness away.

 

define "vain things"...

If we are going to use that book as a reference, there are plenty of LS threads here showing MacArthur's soteriology is heavily bent towards works. We don't turn from sinning to Christ, we turn TO Christ to stop sinning. That is biblical repentance.

Veiled ad hominem aside, if "denying" Christ in the way you are exegeting this passage leads to destruction, Peter is burning in hell today. One only truly deny's Christ when they refuse Him. This does NOT apply to a believer who later on claims to deny Him. Our fallen minds can become warped into believing something else,...BUT when we are faithlesss, He remains faithful to keep His promise of ETERNAL (not temporal, or dependant on me) life. I believe it is you who have eisegeted the passage in question through the lens of the "P".

You have a strange view of obedience. Being carried out and dragged by angels is not obedience. It is also ironic that he and his family had absolutely no influence on the citizens of S&G, as they could not even come up with 2 more righteous people besides his family. So much for being salt and light...

I don't doubt there is a small amount of Scripture addressing Lot, but I will hardly brush it under the rug as insignificant. Every act of Lot seen in Scripture is not righteous...yet he is deemed righteous. Hmmm. I wonder if God was trying to get a point across. Ironic Abraham only believed and was credited with righteousness, and Lot, being a relative, also was deemed righteous. I feel sorry that you just dismiss this fact that it is not our works (or lack of) that determine the righteousness of a believer.

 

Webdog - what is your answer?

Webdog,

What is your answer to:

Ephesians 2:10
James 2:14-26

 

What say you of works then?

Webdog,

What say you of works then?

What is your answer to:

Ephesians 2:10
James 2:14-26

 

I'm not understanding the question. Works don't save, if that's what you are asking. Please clarify...

 

Agreed. Works don't save.

Agreed. Works don't save. But we are called to do good works, correct?

 

Absulutely...once we are justified. Lordship Salvation teaches works (turning from sin) are needed in order to be justified, when Scripture states turning to Christ (what repentance truly is) by faith is what justifies.

 

Faith and repentance.....

During my tour through the Bible today. This section of Scripture strongly spoke to me and is relevant to the comments on faith and repentance.....

Colossians 1:21-23

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Faith is not an event but an on-going action. You will not be presented as righteous in Christ just because you accepted Christ once upon a time when you were 12 years old. You need to "continue in your faith" to the end.

 

On the latter, we differ. If it is up to us to coninue in our faith to the end, it is no longer grace. Justification by grace alone through faith alone is an event. Sanctification is an on going action. We were created for good works "in" Christ Jesus. Once we are "in" Christ, we are forever sealed to never again be on the outside.

 

I read the OP. Warren presents another Gospel. I will stand with the Apostle Paul who said:

Galatians 1:6-9
6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

Can you be "Justified" and then live like the devil?

Actually, now that I read your position, I don't think we do differ. I agree that "Justification by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone is an event." Also, I agree that "Sanctification is an on-going action resulting from true Justification." I also believe that everyone who is truly Justified will be Glorified in Christ through God's promise of the perseverance of the Saints.

"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified." - Romans 8:29-30​

All of this is due to God's Grace. On my own, I am not able to keep my faith to the end (sanctification), but I can do all things through Him who strengthens me (Phillipians 4:13)

I am not talking stating that a Christian will never sin again. However, the evidence of Justification is a continued transformation into the image of Christ (holiness).

Can you be "Justified" and then live like the devil?

 

Nevermind, miss read the post I was responding to