Stepping on my soap box

It is difficult, but not impossible to stay involved with those who are among our fellowship, in everyday activities.

We should be developing ministries outside of church in which several people, or many people, can be involved. We should be interacting with each other during the week and not just on Sunday and Wednesday.

Jesus said the world would know we were His disciples by the way we demonstrated love for one another. When you love someone you will want to be around them. You will care what is happening.

peace to youraying:

 

I read it. So, what is your point?

Nothing he said changes the fact that we are commanded to intervene with those who have claimed the name of Christ but are not living as Christ commanded.

peace to youraying:

 

That is really a shortcoming in our fellowship that needs to be worked on. It seems in life there are about three circles, church, family, and work. Family and church overlap, but not so much with work. I always try to mirror the same actions in both places.

 

Great post JOJ, I guess I wished I would have taken your route instead of my sarcasm about see the characteristics of the fruit.

I don't believe we were taught to judge each other, we were taught how to recognize false prophets and those who would hurt God's Church or His flock.

 

Preaching and teaching about sin is not judging anymore than law school puts people in jail. It is simply explaining what the Lord said. The Word will convict if convicting needs to be done.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

You see, it is the true righteous judge since it's able to discern our inner most thoughts...

 

That is an excellent point. A verse out of context to give what seems to be quite a few people, the belief they have the power to see the eternal destiny of another as God does.

 

Great post... :thumbsup:

 

Couldn't agree more with either you two...JJ and LeBuick....We need to listen, listen and listen some more.

A wise professor told me early on: "Jim, whatever you become in life, be available." What sound advice.

Listen, listen and listen some more.

Cheers,

Jim

 

I apologize for my misunderstanding and must say there is probably a lot of that happening in this thread. I believe there is a difference from one who tells a little lie vs one who is in willfull rebellion against the Lordship of Christ. You made a good point and I think we need to specify when we use the word sin since both are technically sinning...

 

Agreed Jim, they will hopefully see the error in their own ways when they hear it come out of their own mouth. However, you still have that few who admit to sin but feel it's ok. Those are the tough ones...

 

Dad always taught me God doesn't use are capability, he uses our availability. If you're available and without personal agenda, he will work through you...

 

To what command are you referring?

 

I believe there are instructions in the NT to discern, but we are specifically commanded not to judge in Matt. 7:1. The difference is that the Greek word usually translated as "to judge" (krinw) has the core meaning of "passing judgment." It's the same word used for when a judge in the courtroom passes hands down a ruling. In our current discussion, this would be when we say, "There's no way that guy is saved," because then we are essentially passing judgment and saying, "He's headed for Hell."

Discernment, on the other hand, would be when we look at the lifestyle of someone who calls themselves Christian and say, "That person may not be saved. I need to pray for him and sit down sometime with him to find out what he is depending on for salvation. If he's not saved, I need to point him to the Lord."

Judging is an act of arrogance, but discerning is an act of compassion.

 

oh JohnofJapan.......Is it 11:AM Thursday where you are? I have forgotten the time difference,,,,At any rate, Blessed New Years to you, mate..Good health.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Yep, we're always ahead of you! It's now past 12. I've been downstairs watching the big New Year martial arts show.

You have a great 2009 too, brother. God bless.

John

 

So who's judging now? Must be great to know who is "closer to the kingdom of God" and be able to tell others here they are not.

(Btw, I was not raking anyone over the coals but I'm astounded at your statement).

 

I used pretty much the same approach that you outlined. However, when someone tells me they are a Christian I generally ask them to help out a bit further. Then I ask them to imagine with me for a moment. Imagine that somehow tonight you are involved in a terrible accident and that you died. I know this is scary and a schocking thing to ask. However, if you were to die tonight how do you know for sure that you have eternal life and will spend enernity with God? If they give me a works based answer I show them from the Bible that our works do not and can not save us (Isa.64:6 and Eph. 2:8-9). Then I use the Roman Road to share the gospel. This works really well for people who profess to be Christians, but really aren't saved, because generally if they say they are Christians they will not argue with the text of the Bible (even if they actually are lost). I find that they generally have some kind of family background associated with church and they respect the Bible as authoritative.

 

LeBuick, how do you apply this from 1 Cor 5 which tells us we are to judge other believers but not outsiders? Does this not mean we are to judge the actions of believers?

12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
13But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

 

What I ask in my ministry, where I'm talking to Wiccans, Neopagans, angry agnostics, psychics, etc. is something like, "What is your spiritual journey now?" I also like to ask them "What is your spiritual background?" If they say "Christian," I ask them why they have rejected Christianity.

This usually turns into a very fruitful discussion in which I can present the gospel because it's part of a dialogue and not lecturing them.

I've always encouraged believers to speak kindly to those who look different (purple hair, wild clothes, etc.) because often these people have had bad experiences in the church. In fact, when a lot of people were demonstrating against Marilyn Manson in the 90s, I led a an outreach from my church to a Marilyn Manson concert and we spoke for about 3 hrs. to people in line (mostly teens). It was one the most incredible experiences in my ministry.

 

For starters....Matt 18:15 "And if your brother sins, go and reprove him in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother."

peace to youraying: