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John 1:18

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Olivencia, Apr 12, 2009.

  1. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    When you are in calvinism, you deny a lie in it. Likewise you denied MV are Gnostic. That is very simple because a lie changed the world.
     
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    If you can show a lie, I will not deny it. But you haven't, not in this and certainly not in Calvinism. So stop ... walk away.
     
  3. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    When the Gnostic Gospels were there, Gnostics tampered the scriptures in the Greek NT. According to a source, an unbelieving textual scholar ADMITTED the textual alterations. Let me take quotation from another source:
    Gnostics separated Jesus from the Christ in Greek NT in way of docetism because of their belief saying that the Christ was not human. Modern versions followed the Gnostic's step. Modern versions showed the separation between Jesus and the Christ in the NT many times.
     
  4. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    If I show you a lie, you would FIX a lie in it and defend it. I read Calvinism and Arminianism many times. Which is right? Still many lies there?
     
  5. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Not sure what that means. What does it mean to "fix a lie in it"?

    Calvinism.
     
  6. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Well let's take a look at what you said about calvinism. Then how would you interpret Amos 3:6, Is 45:7 and Lam. 3:38?
     
  7. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    As always, you're absolutely wrong, Askjo. Of course I don't believe your false idea that modern translations are Gonstic because your belief is totally untrue. You have been shown repeatedly that modern Bible translations are NOT Gnostic, yet you have a severe comprehension problem with this truth. You're the one who believes a falsehood, Askjo.

    Not true at all, Askjo. There is no truth in your false claim that modern Bible translations are Gnostic. You have yet to produce one shred of credile evidence to support the myth that modern translations are Gnostic.

    Askjo, you made the claim that certain beliefs were held by Gnostics. Remember this post?


    My reply to you showed that if the Gnostics supposedly corrupted Scripture they did a very poor job.

    Askjo, since that time and in various posts you have continued to make your errant claim that modern Bible translations are Gnostic. Yet despite your continued promotion of this falsehood, you have never produced one credible bit of evidence to support this myth. You have been shown modern Bible translations are NOT Gnostic, yet you continue to deny the truth while you accuse others of unbelief. Askjo, the unbelief is actually on your part.
     
  8. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    Askjo, you make the claim modern Bible translations are Gnostic. You state five basic doctrines denied by Gnosticism.

    Can you show us one legitimate (keep in mind the New World Translation, the Clear Word Translation and the Inspired Version (aka the Joseph Smith Translation) are NOT legitimate Bible translations) deny the deity of Christ?

    Can you show us one legitimate modern Bible translation that denies Jesus' virgin birth?

    Can you show us one legitimate modern Bible translation that denies Jesus' miracles?

    Can you show us one legitimate moden Bible translation that denies Jesus is the Christ?

    If you can't produce evidence that even one legitimate modern Bible translation follows the guidelines you yourself set, then your claim that modern Bible translations are Gnostic must be rejected as the falsehood that it is. Do legitimate modern Bible translations fit your criteria, Askjo? Put up some evidence or else admit you don't have a clue what you're talking about. So far all your beating around the bush, your hemming and your hawing have not produced one credible shred of evidence to support your contention that modern Bible translations are Gnostic. Askjo, where's the beef??? Show us some evidence to back your claim. It would be nice if you could come up with something solid before ALL my hair falls out. Of course I'm not going to hold my breath while waiting for you to produce evidence hat doesn't exist. :rolleyes:
     
    #68 Keith M, Apr 19, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2009
  9. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    I hear crickets in the place of a reasonable defense or any evidence. Askjo, your goose is cooked on this one.
     
  10. Tater77

    Tater77 New Member

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    He cant stand on a soapbox when its been burned out from under him. :laugh::tonofbricks:
     
  11. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    Askjo's goose is always cooked because of his promotion of the false KJVO belief.

    :laugh:

    Askjo's failure to show us that modern Bible translations are Gnostic in that they deny the five points Askjo outlined speaks volumes about the validity of this myth.

    Askjo, would you care to defend your assertion that modern Bible translations are Gnostic by showing us how legitimate modern Bible translations fit the five points you yourself outlined? If not, then we will have no choice but to accept that your allegations are totally unfounded and have no basis in truth.

    :BangHead:

    While we wait for you to successfully show modern Bible translations are Gnostic...

    :sleep:
     
  12. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    Now where did I put my matches?

    Askjo's assertions of this fable and that fable are always founded on quicksand. I've never seen Askjo produce one shred of evidence that successfully supports the KJVO position or the assertion that modern Bible translations are Gnostic. It seems that after being shot down so many times Askjo would finally just give up.
     
    #72 Keith M, Apr 20, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2009
  13. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    For those of you that are not familiar with deaf culture- if you teach a deaf person early and often enough that 2+2=5 it will be very difficult to get them to believe the truth later. Trust me on this.
     
  14. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    [Double post- sorry]
     
    #74 Mexdeaf, Apr 20, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2009
  15. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    That is the same principle used in the sales of products too.
     
  16. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Let's return to the OP.

    What is your conclusion ? Only Begotten Son or Only Begotten God?

    Is God begotten?

    In one sentence, did God ever show 2 God's?

    What is your conclusion clearly?
     
  17. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Concerning John 3:16, KJV-only author Mickey Carter claimed: "The word 'begotten' makes Jesus God" (Things That Are Different,p. 181). On the other hand, KJV defender D. A. Waite wrote concerning John 1:18 that "it is not possible to have an "Only Begotten God" (Defending the KJB, p. 168).

    It is interesting that "begotten God" is the rendering at John 1:18 in the Syriac Peshitta that is accepted or placed on the KJV-only line of "good Bibles," even though that rendering is condemned in other translations.

    Is it consistent to suggest that the word "begotten" destroys the deity of the eternal God the Son in one verse but this same word would not harm the deity of the eternal Son of God in another verse?
     
  18. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    Askjo, you're still not offering one iota of credible evidence to support the myth that modern Bible translations are Gnostic. If you're going to continue to promote this idea, you need to offer PROOF, not the parroting of the errant and disproven opinions posted on some quack KJVO website.

    WHERE'S THE PROOF, ASKJO? You still haven't done a thing to prove your position. All you've offered so far is opinions which have already been shown to be completely false. As such, your opinions must be totally rejected.
     
  19. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    It is interesting that "begotten Son" is found in a few manuscripts where Modern versions derived, but modern versions rejected "Son."
     
  20. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    As many have pointed out, the word mongenes really mean "unique" or "one and only." Isaac was Abraham's "monogenes" but wasn't the only begotten since he had also begotten Ishmael. so John 1:18 is correct: In a world of many gods, Jesus is the only God. To focus on his sonship is to miss the point. This is why JW's can't answer the verse. They love the KJV here because they can use the simplistic arguments that Jesus was begotten just like everyone else was. But that simply isn't true: Jesus was the only God, the unique son of God.
     
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