The will of God in the salvation of men: Matt:11:27

I hope you guys don't mind me jumping in on your discussion about John 10.

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

In vs. 1 & 2 we see Jesus telling us that the true shepherd entereth in by the door. This (the door) is talking about OT scripture and prophesy. Jesus fullfilled all the OT scriptures and prophesies as being from the line of David, being born in Bethlehem, and so forth... This identifies him as the true shepherd. There had been others who had professed to be the Christ, but they were false.

Acts 5:35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Now, these specific verses were about Peter and the apostles, but they show that false Christs had arisen before.

As concerning the sheep, those Jews who knew and believed the OT scriptures could identify Jesus because of his words, miracles, and that he fullfilled prophesy. This is what is meant by knowing his voice.

John 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?
39 He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.
40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

Andrew truly believed the OT scriptures. When he heard John the Baptist testify of Jesus, and spent some time with him, he was convinced Jesus was the promised Messias, the Christ.

We see also the Samaritan woman at the well looked for the Messiah.

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

John 4:28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

And the men of her village who truly believed the scriptures also believed Jesus.

John 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
40 So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days.
41 And many more believed because of his own word;
42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

Matt 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

The sheep are those who before Jesus had believed God's word and looked for the promised Messiah.

Those who did not believe God's word in the OT are not the sheep.

Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

You see, if a person did not believe the OT scriptures, Moses and the prophets, they will not believe Jesus either.

 

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that sheep are God's believing people. God said he would send a shepherd because the leaders of Israel were unworthy. Jesus is that shepherd. God's people eagerly awaited that day.

 

Exactly. Which is why in the Book of John Christ tells them that they will not believe because they honor him the way they honor the Father and also accuses them of not believing Moses.

 

Yes, BaptistBob

A very interesting verse is:

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

This verse almost seems like a contradiction at first because Jesus says they trust in Moses, but then says they do not believe his writings.

These folks were trusting in the law (works) for salvation, not looking for the promised saviour (faith).

It was usually the spiritual and religious who were blind to the scriptures, as in the story of the Pharisee and publican. The Pharisee trusted in his good works and believed himself righteous. And he probably was a very good man compared to others. The publican on the other hand knew himself to be a sinner and trusted in the promised saviour.

And Paul speaks of this in Phillipians

Phil 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

When it came to the law, Paul was blameless. He trusted he was righteous. But the Lord Jesus revealed to him he was a sinner.

 

John 1:45
Philip found Nathanael and told him, "We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."

Nice job! Good insight! Did you see my outline of John? I try to develop that theme.


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No, where is it? I will give it a read. But I am getting off the computer soon, I might not get back for a day or so.

And yes, John 1:45 is another scripture that shows the OT saints understood that salvation was through faith in the promised saviour, in this case the "Prophet". This was not any prophet, this was a very special prophet (capitalized) and they knew it.

Deut 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

 

No, they were the sheep because they already knew and believed the promises in the Old Testament. They recognized Jesus because he fullfilled scripture and prophesy. See John 5:45-47 below where Jesus himself says this. Look what it says, Jesus said if they had believed Moses, they would have believed him too. And logic would show the opposite to be true, if they did not believe the writings of Moses, then they could not believe (or recognize) Jesus either. It's right there in scripture explained to you.

Faith comes by hearing God's Word. Anyone can have faith if they will listen to God's word and believe it.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

We have showed you numerous verses from the scriptures showing that OT saints believed and understood the OT scriptures and looked for the saviour. They did not believe they could be saved by keeping the law or works.

Those who did not truly believe the scriptures did believe they were saved by works.

John 5:John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

 

Of course they believed Jesus AFTER he came. Don't you understand that those who believed God prior to Christ's arrival rejected all who came before Christ? They were looking for the Christ, so when he arrived they believed in him.

Yet you somehow claim that the sheep were unbelievers. How is it that unbelievers are rejecting false Gods? How is it that they are not following another? The idea is absurd.

Exactly. They don't believe Jesus because they don't believe Moses or the Father. Those who do so are unbelievers. Unbelievers aren't sheep. In fact, if they had believed Moses and the Father, they would have believed Christ. God is giving his believing community over to Christ, and they aren't a part of it.

Sheep are not unbelievers. They did not follow another prior to Christ's arrival, and that's what John 10:8 says.

I'll look it up. It's probably in a different thread.

 

http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1424649&postcount=268

 

Sure there is. John 10:1-8.

 

I disagree with you.

Look, concerning the blind, lame, and those possesed by devils, etc....

In almost every case, they came to him, he did not go to them.

They approached Jesus first in nearly every case. They had faith, this is why they came to Jesus. Some had heard that he had healed others. Some had heard his preaching and believed him to be the Son of God, the Messiah, the Christ promised in OT scripture.

But don't you see, they already believed the scriptures. They looked for the promised Christ. And I have shown several examples in earlier posts like the Samaritan woman at the well who said she knew Messias would come and tell us all things. And after speaking to Jesus for a few minutes she was convinced Jesus was the promised Messiah. She ran into the town and told others, who believed before they even met Jesus. Then after hearing and seeing Jesus themselves, they were even more firmly convinced that this was the promised Christ, the Saviour of the world. They understood the scriptures. They were looking for this saviour. And when they met Jesus THEN they recognized him. They would not have ran out to meet him if they were not already looking for the Messiah.

And with the blind and lame, they too believed in Jesus. This is why they came to him.

Matt 9:28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.
29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

Get rid of the dispensationalist nonsense and believe what the scriptures plainly say.

 

Here's one of many (look near the bottom):

http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1421881&postcount=225

 

Let me give you an example I am sure you will understand.

If I told you right now, that Jesus had returned, would you believe me? If I told you I knew Jesus had returned because he performed many magnificent miracles, would you believe me? If on TV they showed this man performing many magnificent miracles, would you believe it was Jesus returned?

No, because you know the scriptures and Jesus has warned of this.

Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

If you believe Jesus's warning, you are of his sheep. You know who the real shepherd is right now. And you would not believe this false Christ. I would not believe in this false Christ no matter how great his miracles are, because I have been warned of Jesus the true shepherd already.

But those in the world who do not believe the scriptures right now will go out, and they will believe he is the Christ. They are not of the sheep, they cannot recognize the true shepherd.

Well, that is exactly how it was back then. They knew the scriptures far better than you think (not all, but many), and they recognized the true shepherd when they saw him or heard his voice.

Does that make sense to you?