Baptism +

Part 1

Dear Dr.Walter; you said it, but do not see it; "THIS WAS A COMMISSION TO GO TO THE GENTILES GIVEN THE JEWISH CONGREGATION BEFORE THERE WAS A PAUL." Your stand is not stable at all. Can you tell me what is the purpose of Damascus Road

It seems you have missed the mark. Paul went back to Jerusalem by revelation of the Holy Spirit. /why? To tell the Apostolic church in Jerusalem to quit trying put the Gentiles, and Jews in Antioch, and other places into bondage. James, Peter and the rest shook hands on that. James has taken over the Jerusalem church, and things were begging to fall apart. God wanted the record to be straight.

And it is straight for we see in your references in Galatians that the Great Commission is not to be carried out for those of the Jerusalem church said they would not preach the Great Commission to a Gentile. And you cannot find where Paul ever told a Gentile you have to be water baptized for the remission of sins, as the Jew was told to do. [quote]


Acts 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew lightunto the people, and to the Gentiles.

[/quote] Of course Paul preached these things. Didn't Jesus suffer, He arose from the dead, and was the first to proclaim Light to both Jew, and Gentile. We see this in the Great Commission. Then Afterwards From Heaven He shed more light. Before the Gentile would be saved as the Jew. But NOW Today, any one with the blood of Israel in them can be saved just as we Gentiles.

It is good to notice to whom this book is written. This tells us again, Israel will be blinded in this dispensation of Grace Through Faith.

This cannot be. Our gospel today is to Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and we will be saved. Abraham didn't know His name for it w a secret. We know Abraham did not know His name because He would not tell anyone as we see in scripture. He would not tell those that asked His name. Would not tell Moses, Jacob, or Manoah for His Name was Secret.

Did you know you just showed the dispensational gospel that was given to Paul? "foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith,"

 

Did you know that there is only one gospel by which man can be saved, and that you cannot show any other without twisting Scripture?
Did you know that from the very beginning there has always been only one gospel?

 

I said it and you don't have the foggiest idea what I said. The JEWISH church is given a GENTILE commission to make disciples of "ALL NATIONS." Acts 1-7 is a refusal of the Jewish congregation to obey this commission. God couldn't even get Peter to go to the Gentiles in Acts 10 without repeating a vision three times and telling him not to treat unclean what God had cleansed. Even when he went to the gentiles the first thing out of his mouth was I am a Jew and it is unlawful for me to be in your house "but God hath shewed me." When Peter gets back to Jerusalem the other Jewish members call him in on the red carpet to explain why he went to the Gentiles when in fact Christ had already commanded them to do so (Mt. 28;19; Acts 1:8).

God had to use a Gentile Proselyte Jew (Philip) to go to the Samaritans and even then the church sent down Peter and John to check it out.

The persecution God sent against the church in Jerusalem through Saul finally got them to go outside of Judaism into Samaritan but only the Gentile Proselyte Jews witnessed to gentiles (Acts 11:18-19).

Hence, God called Saul (Paul) to be an apostle to the Gentiles while permitting the twelve to go to the Jews of the dispersion.

However Acts 15 proves your two different gospel theory is absolutely false as Paul, Peter, James and the whole church at Jerusalem agreed to the same gospel of grace:

Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

The exception list of things were agreed to by Paul for the sake of being able to witness to Jews dispersed in the Gentile world:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Paul commanded the same thing of the Gentile believers in Gentile congregations wherever they went so that they could better witness to the lost Jews:

Acts 16:4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.

Paul did no such thing. He went to Jerusalem to confirm that the gospel he preached was the same gospel preached by the rest of the Apostles and to help them in rebuking a movement that was demanding Gentiles become Jews through circumcision. Peter already believed this before Paul ever came to Jerusalem and that there was no gospel for the Jews versus a gospel for the gentiles:

Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.


You are teaching exactly what the Judiazers, or false teachers at Jerusalem were teaching which Peter, James and Paul rebuked together. There is but one gospel (Acts 10:43) for both Jew and Gentile and one commission for both Jew and Gentile and it is a commission to "all nations" not merely to the Gentiles but to the Jews as well.

You are basing this challenge on a foundation of pure eisgetical error. Your first error is that Peter and Paul preached two different gospels when Peter said the Gentiles were saved by the same "gospel" God putting "NO DIFFERNCE between" the Jew and Gentile. Second, water baptism was administered to the Gentiles by the Jews with Peter in Acts 10. When Peter asked can "any man forbid baptism" to these Gentiles it was after they had been already baptized in the Spirit. Hence, the same water baptism Peter had received himself and which was commissioned to be administered "until the end of the world" to "all nations" was the baptism administered to these GENTILES in Acts 10.


What you are teaching is scriptures JERKED out context that are in flat denial of plain and explicit teaching. The error being corrected is that there is another gospel besides the one that Christ delivered to them in the Great Commission and it is not a gospel for Jews only but the gospel of Christ to "all nations."

 

Part 2 of 3

And you are right. Abram By Faith Believed God. We do the same as he who at that time was uncircumcised. Just what was it Abraham did believe? HE Be lived what God told him, and Abraham believed God (Romans 4:3). But the question arises, why could Abram/Abraham not by the Grace of God come THROUGH FAITH. It is there in scripture for us to see, but so very many cannot see it. Again I say Jesus at that time (dispensation) had not shed His Blood. Also Abraham did not know the Name of the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

You know from your studies that God had various names, but until time for His birth, no one knew the name of our Lord. Now we know His name is Jesus, the only begotten Son of God. We should not endeavor to change scripture to say, "they all knew the name of the Lord back then. His name is not revealed to any one until Mary is told what to name our Lord Jesus, Luke 1:31-32, "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus.
32. "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;"

It does not say they prophesied through faith for the Gentile, but that they bear witness to this fact now.

Would you like to understand what Peter is saying here? Is not a witness one who sees and reports? Did any prophets before Damascus Road REPORT any thing about TRHROUGH FAITH? John 8:56, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad". The verse you post should be read, as does this John reference. They Now Witness. If they witnessed it before Now, why didn't they report it? If this was in prophecy, then why didn't Peter, and the others from Jerusalem know about this? Did you read Acts 10:45(WNT), "Then the Jewish believers who had gone along with Peter were astounded because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been showered<r> upon the heathen too". This knocked the Jews back on their heels, for it was hard to believe God would treat the Gentile like them, and all they had to do was Believe in Him.


Through faith alone by the Grace of God, cannot be found before Damascus Road. Can you explain why Peter in Acts 2:38 tells Israel they must Repent, and be Baptized for the Remission of their Sins. When so they can receive the Holy Ghost. If you try to make this verse mean what you think it means, then all you do is cause contradiction in scripture, or have to accuse Peter of being a liar, for he would not tell his own people they come THROUGH FAITH. God put those words into Peter's mouth, and then stopped his tongue as the Holy Spirit was applied to those Gentiles. God had a purpose in sending Peter to the first Gentile to preach a GOSPEL completely different than he had ever preached before. And as far as we can tell from scripture Peter was done with preaching to the Gentile. Why not? Because God never appointed to preach to the Gentiles. We know he was uncomfortable when around them.

Testy, testy there my friend. Is it wise to judge unjustly? Tell me what Paul means when he calls his preaching My Gospel? Is that not what I preach, that which was given only to him to take to the Gentile. You never saw one of them even enter into a "heathen home". You know scripture, and you know it is there, because it is UNLAWFUL for them to do so. It was only after Damascus Road that Peter went to a Gentile, and that is only because Jesus Christ forced him to do so. Try as you may, you cannot disprove Paul is the only Apostle we have today.

Amen! And He also said in Matthew 15:25, "I didn't come you dogs." Are dogs considered men ?

 

This is not true. Here is what Peter said in his sermon in Acts 10:

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)

There is nothing else mentioned there but faith (believes).
Salvation, under Peter's preaching, was by faith alone.

 

Part 3 of 3

I believe that for it is true. But it doesn't say the Gentile THROUGH Faith. Wish you would believe Paul when he said he got the Gospel he preaches from Christ Jesus in heaven? Please go over Ephesians again to see what I believe, and that is I am in the Body of Christ for I believe what God tells me to believe, and that is, I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for my salvation, and I understand how I got there. For it is By Grace THROUGH FAITH, and not of any works of my own. It is the Gift of God.


You are getting off course of what I have posted, which scripture supports. Isn't there something missing in what you are virulently trying to do, viz. to denounce Paul.

Is it not you that should begin to understand what Paul tells you? He's the only one that tells you this - Romans 3:30, "if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith "Paul tells us this, and other truths learned from Christ Jesus in heaven, and they are not to be perverted by another gospel, which is not another gospel,We see this in in Galatians 1:6-7, "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ."[quote]


You are spouting out complete ignorance of God's Word! Worse, you are placing yourself under the very curse Paul intentionally applied to those who would come preaching the gospel you are claiming!

The Law was never given to save anyone, to justify anyone. It was ADDED to teach what sin is and lead them to "repent of dead works" and come to faith in Christ and receive him when He appeared. We preach the same gospel today, the gospel of grace that looks back at the cross by faith as the prophets preached looking forward to the coming of Christ (Acts 10:43).[/quote]
You are repeating yourself in false accusation while showing your lack of knowledge in His word.

What in the world are you talking about. I've never said the Law saved anyone. But God's people lived under the Law. Can't we agree on that, and also that we don't, and we don't have to do any work at all to be sealed into the Body of Christ Church.


Your dislike of Paul is showing. Can't you see it is you that does not believe the gospel of Paul, which Jesus Christ gave to Him? Have you ever noticed what my signature here is? Galatians 1:11-12. Try reading that to see if you do believe Paul.

Please try to understand Paul. Peter says it is difficult, but then Peter was of that other gospel, which Paul says will bring us back into bondage. Please notice this is not ituttut speaking, but your Apostle Paul.

 

May you be speaking of the fear of the Lord?

 

Abraham was a GENTILE born in Ur of the Chaldees or a Chaldean by race. God preached to him the "gospel" (Gal. 3:8) he was justified by grace through faith in the Gospel BEFORE he was circumcised (Rom. 4:4,11).

The term "Jesus" means "Jehovah is salvation" or "Jehovah our Savior" and Old Testament saints by grace through faith believed in the coming of the promised "Christ" or "Messiah" as Peter clearly says that David expressed faith in the coming Messiah (Acts 2).

Noah is explicitly described as one who found "grace in the eyes of the Lord" and a "preacher of righteousness." Acts 10:43 clearly states that "ALL" the prophets gave witness to the gospel of Christ and Isaiah 53 is a clear and explicit example of that witness that "whosoever believeth in his name shall receive remission of sins" is the prophetic witness of salvation through faith alone by the grace of God and Paul confirms that Isaiah preached the gospel of Christ (Rom. 10:16).

Hebrews 4:2 explicitly states that during the days of Moses the SAME GOSPEL was preached then as was preached today.

Romans 3:24-26 teaches that justification by grace through faith in the coming Messiah was how Old Testament saints received remission of sins as well as we receive remission of sins. Abraham received remission of sins by grace through faith without works (Rom. 4:1-8) without submission to divine ordinances (Rom. 4:9-11) without law keeping (Rom. 4:12-15) and by grace through faith (Rom. 4:16) as do all children of God in all ages (Rom. 4:16) and without His personal assistance, performance (Rom. 4:17-21) just as we do (Rom. 4:22-25).

1. There has been and now is only ONE GOSPEL and no other - Gal. 1:6-9; Heb. 4:2

2. There has been and now is only ONE WAY and no other - Mt. 7:13-14; Jn. 14:6;

3. There has been and now is only ONE SAVIOR and no other - Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12; 10:43; Acts 26:22-23;

4. There has been and now is only salvation by grace through faith in Christ and no other - Rom. 3:24-26; 4:4-6; 16; Acts 10:43; Gal. 3:6-8;

Acts 15 makes it clear that the JEWISH Apostles believed that the JEW and the GENTILE are saved the same way by the same gospel as Peter explicitly states:

.....that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


Look at the above verses. They were saved by "faith." They are saved "through grace." They were saved by faith in "THE GOSPEL" and note the repeated "even as us".

This is the same "witness" given to the same gospel by all the prophets (Acts 10:43; Rom. 10:16; Gal. 3:6-8.

Abraham is set before us as THE FATHER or THE EXAMPLE or THE ROLE MODEL not for some of God's children but for ALL THAT ARE OF FAITH. What is he a role model or Father of? That justification is through faith without works (Rom. 4:5-6). That remission of sins is through faith without works (Rom. 4:6-8). That remission of sins is through faith with DIVINE ORDINANCES (Rom. 4:9-11). That remission of sins is through faith by Grace (Rom. 4:4-5, 16). That remission of sins is through faith without law keeping (Rom. 4:12-15). That remission of sins is through faith which is of grace (Rom. 4:16). That remission of sins and justification, and imputation of righteousness is through faith in the same gospel (Rom. 4:22-25; Gal. 3:6-8) as preached then as now (Acts 10:43; 26:22-23; Heb. 4:2). THAT ABRAHAM WAS "IN CHRIST" BY FAITH (Gal. 3:17).

That Incarnate "Jesus" is the preincarnate "Jehovah our Savior" Messiah promised since Genesis 3:15 that is the object of saving faith by grace that has been the expectation of all the saints and the essence of the gospel which gospel God has given progressive revelation from Genesis 3:15 to complete and full revelation in the gospel accounts. He is the promised "seed" of the woman (Gen. 3:15) the "seed" promised to Abraham (Gal. 3:16-17) that Abraham saw by faith in the gospel (Gal. 3:6-8; John 8).

 

Part 1 of 2

Are you saying the House of Israel, or are you speaking of the Apostles? If you are speaking of the House of Israel, then you are correct. If not you do err that Peter, James, John didn't believe the Great Commission.

I see you have been reading my Post's, or the Bible? Your interpretation is gibberish, at best. I began checking out Acts many years ago. Scripture please of Phillip being a Gentile.

Have no idea of what book you are reading. Saul forced most out of Jerusalem at that time, but not the Apostles. This speaks of Stephen as shown in Acts 7. Here is a reputable version of the Bible, so please read verse 19 again in order for to understand. (NRS)Acts 11:19, "'Now those who were scattered because of the persecution that took place over Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch, and they spoke the word to no one except Jews."

The Grace gospel YES! But Paul preached to the Gentile, within that Gospel, the Gospel that he had been given by Jesus Christ. The Gentile is justified through faith, and the Jew by faith. You don't believe Paul, you don't believe the Apostles, and you completely misread scripture. Either that are you are reading someone else's book.

You need to try reading all about what was said, such as "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11. But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they", Act 15:10-11. Does this sound like the Great Commission?

The Spirit rebukes you as you try to interpret. What does further scripture say about this meeting, Galatians 2:1-11, "Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
2. And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
3. But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4. And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5. To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
6. But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
7. But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8. (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9. And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
10. Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
11. But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed."

 

The gospel has been referred to as far back as Genesis 3:15.
What do you mean when I say:

that this only refers to the fear of the Lord.
The gospel is not to be equated with the fear of the Lord.
You need a BIK button.
Boy I'm Konfused!!

 

Part 2 of 2

Look again. Lydia was praying as a Jew, in a Jewish setting, on the Jewish Sabbath. As such then Paul is as always a Jew to the Jews.

we keep coming back to this truth. Please give an answer. Peter did not fully understand until he made the statement you see above, which is Now We Can Be Saved like the Gentiles.

[wuote

 

What Bible are you reading???? Paul always went FIRST to the Jew (LYDIA)but then to the GENTILE (JAILOR).

 

I'm happy you are now including what you find in my Posts, and in the Bible. What you can't find in scripture is through faith until it's time.

Peter now believes, and says unabashedly we can now add the finishing touch to OUR salvation. We can Now be saved just like the Gentile, which is .... Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9. not of works, lest anyone should boast."

Can you see the difference? Our hearts are purified By faith, ad our gift Through the faith of Jesus Christ, who did all of the Works for us. Now Peter is saying the same thing as Paul. They can also no be in the Body of Christ, just as we Gentiles are.

 

Absurd! That is only word that can appropriately describe your misinterpretations of scripture.

Neither Peter or any human can "add the finishing touch" to salvation as God is the author savlation not an man. To presumptuously imagine that God has more than one way of salvation is repudiated over and over and over again by the Scriptures.

The Jewish ceremonial laws kept the Jews away from the Gentiles and that is what God dealt with Peter over in Acts 10. That is what Peter faultered in at Antioch when Paul rebuked him. The gospel remained the same for both Jews and Gentiles but the ceremonial laws were the obstacle for obeying the commission.

 

May I humbly return the button, revised to read, "I made an horrible error". Why the error. I didn't say I believed", only ""May you be speaking of the fear of the Lord?"

What I believe goes back further than what you say, In the Mystery of God there are secrets. Can we find a secret such as this before Damascus Road? If God had revealed it before he wanted it known, then it would not be a secret. What we have here is full revelation that Christ Jesus gave to Paul. II Timothy 1:9, "who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

 

That's what scripture says, and I agree.

 

What does the GOSPEL of John teach?

Summarized:
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. (John 20:31)

Jesus fully revealed himself to His disciples.

 

But John wrote his gospel, and books about 30 years after Paul, and Peter. What did Peter, John and the others that were given the Great Commission gospel think of Paul's Grace Commission gospel? Peter tells us the only Apostle to the Gentile should be listened to."And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;"

I believe scripture here plainly shows that Peter is writing to the Book of Hebrews that Paul wrote to them. Peter says they have read this book to them, and also all of Paul's Epistles. Peter speaks of the "wisdom given to Paul". Isn't it logical and overwhelming evidence that much of what Peter writes, and what John writes had to come from Christ Jesus in heaven, through Paul?

While on earth we know He did. They believed Him, but they could not understand Him for some things were hidden from them. We can vividly see this in such verses, as you will find in John Chapter 14. Some think the Apostles were really stupid because they did not know what we know today. If we didn't have the Book of Acts, and the Epistles of Paul, we would not know what we know, For God did hid things in order to bring about His Purpose.

As a Gentile, I have that blessed hope. "Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9. And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10. To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11. According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12. In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him", Ephesians 3:8-12

 

Does it matter when he wrote?
He recorded the words of Christ, and those words were spoken 60 years before John wrote. Are they not true just because there is a gap of time between the speaking of them and the writing of them?

But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. (John 20:31)
--The year in which he wrote the book doesn't change the truth one iota. Neither did he get his information from Paul or Peter. There is nothing to say that he interacted with Paul whatsoever.

No, it is not. John was exiled to the Isle of Patmos. It is likely that he had not contact with the Apostle Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles. John's revelation was straight from the Lord, both on earth when he was with Jesus, and from heaven, as when he wrote the book of Revelation.

 

[ [/QUOTE]

The Bible has been translated. If we just let the Holy Spirit do the interpreting, without putting our spin on it.

Why do you misconstrue what the Bible says? Peter came to the knowledge that they can NOW be saved just like the Gentile. This is the final Word of God today as to how all are saved, for this is what Christ Jesus revealed to Paul, and we know Peter believed the wisdom that he (Peter) says Paul has in Christ. I believe this because this is what the Bible tells us, in its interpretation.

Can you explain further what you mean the "gospel remained the same for both Jews and Gentiles". What is that gospel you speak of that remains the same?