Liberty Removes Ergun Caner

This may very well be true, but neither one of us knows the heart of anyone here. It is a normal human reaction to push the guilty (the sinners) away from us as quickly as possible so as to keep our own reputations intact, but I'm convinced that much of the zeal for our "reputations" is really a craving for the esteem of others, so others will see us as more righteous than we really are.

I fight that urge all the time myself, and it's not pretty.

Too many people judge others "by the company they keep", instead of by the fruits of their lives. That's why all the "guilt by association" accusations that go around in religious life are so wrong and destructive.

I assume (and I may be wrong here, I just don't know) that the leadership at Liberty seeks after God and is trying to do the right thing. On the basis of that assumption, I interpret what they do with a predisposition toward seeing their actions in a positive manner.

Granted, I presume good things of other people who profess to be Christians. I think that's what Christ calls us to do in extending grace to others in our Christian community. However, if I see professed Christians clearly acting in a way that's contrary to Christian principles, my opinion will obviously change and my presumption of those other people doing good will obviously be weakened.

If Liberty had asked Caner to resign, I would have assumed that they had done the right thing under the circumstances (since I am not privy to the things they discussed behind closed doors with Caner). Since they have retained him, although at a reduced position, I assume that very positive and redemptive things happened behind closed doors and some commitments were made on both sides.

Either way, I'm going to assume that Liberty did the right thing until I am given a compelling reason to change my mind.

 

Incorrect, the heart of man is known by their actions.


Mat 12:34 ..............For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

 

It's sad that the Rev. Dr. Ergun Caner lied about his past. LU did the right thing by firing him as president. I think that allowing him to continue to serve as a professor is a good thing and will maintain their credibility while also not destroying Caner.

 

I probably should have been more precise... Neither you or I truly know the intent of anyone else, so we both need to be very careful about assuming the worst of others.

 

Seems like this applies to the lying Caner as much as anyone. He lied. He has not repented of his lies.

Please hold off judgement for how members of the BB will handle his repentance until he actually does in fact repent.

Also, to the one that brought up forgiving prostitutes etc, I totally agree that we should retore such people. But do you place the repenentant prostitute as a sunday school teacher a week after repenting?

No, what needs to happen is for caner to repent, leave all positions of leadership for a time, seek the forgiveness of his church, stay an active member in his church. After some time has passed and if he has shown to have become honest he could be restored as a teacher.

The problem at this point is that he has not even repented yet. You can't restore a sinner who denies his sin.

 

Its not about what they will do it is about what has already been done.

 

I have repeatedly said that I wish for his repentance and restoration.

He has lied publicly. He has continues to deny his wrongdoing. THose of us who love truth believe that he should be held to Biblical standards of integrity.

Funny how you let a liar slide but you will attack those who call for his repentance.

 

You will have to provide evidence I let "a liar slide" slide. I can provide evidence to the contrary. Your false accusation is a false witness and your repentance is now necessary.

But you also ignore the manner in which this has been handled on this board. Even one with whom I disagree with more than I agree has said the same thing. The motivation for the attacks on Caner are quite spurious. Simply wanting integrity and repentance does not motivate the rhetoric that has been displayed toward Caner. Your use of the word "let a liar slide" shows more than the simplistic motivation you are claiming.

As a Pastor and a Christian I do not come to conclusions about accusations until I have heard from both side no matter how convincing the accusation may see. Doing so brings the motivation of those on this board into question. Talking about it to the extent is has been hashed also brings the motivation of those on this board into question.

It greatly appears that an accusation was made (true or otherwise) and before giving the recipient of the accusation a chance to respond specifically there are those who were willing and wanted to believe anything negative about him. Knowing that Caner is an outspoken opponent of the Reformed view and the vast majority of those who have made quick and unChristian judgments against him it also brings those motivations into question.


It appears that it is more than just Caner who needs to repent lest some also be found guilty of Pharisaical hypocrisy.

 

1. I don't believe LBTS went far enough, though a colleague hinted this was what might happen. I have another word on what might transpire that I'll keep to myself.
2. It is simply baffling to me that on one hand, there are some who apparently want Caner to suffer the death penalty. He could still come clean and offer a public repentance since he publicly sinned repeatedly. That said, those who continue to exalt him and defend him must obviously be defending his sin as well and are just bewildering to me. He has been found guilty of certain acts, and these were not the conspiracy of Calvinists or Muslims or the boogeyman. To the Canerites, I ask: own this. You're making yourself look more and more ridiculous every minute you excuse this pattern of sin.
3. This whole "factory job" nonsense is just that. I'll let y'all have it.
4. There is still room for Caner to serve Christ after repentance and restoration. If not, we all need to pack it up and go home because the gospel we claim to believe and preach is impotent.
5. Lies, sin, misdeeds, and tricks/antics will get you to the top and/or fame, dollars, etc., but they will come crashing down on you and lay you lower than you could ever dream. Let us all take heed, lest we fall.

 

Please provide the post in which this occurred.

 

So there should be little consequence to repeated public sin? Read my post above.

I never said where this occurred, just that it has and more than likely will, just as there has been and will be those who want nothing less than Ergun drawn and quartered.

But look at the SBC Today article cited by Martin. Pathetic.

I could say more.....

 

I have news for you guys. No one here knows all there is to know about anything Caner said. Such judgments for specific level of retribution are not founded. And that is what is being called for here....retribution.

 

Dale and TomVols

I am not letting a liar slide. I certainly don't think that sin ought to go unpunished. What Dr. Caner has done is wrong. It is sin. But there have been comments that he ought to go work in a factory so he can learn humility.

We have had to in our church deal publicly with public sin on the part of a pastor and later on of a member. But the purpose was to bring them back into fellowship. I don't see Paul in 1st Corinthians allowing people to act like Cromwell and be the lord high executioner and carry out the punishment.

I think it's sad that another preacher has fallen. I am not about to pile on. I am going to use it to make sure that everything I say is accurate.

And part of speaking accurately is that none of us know what Liberty found out in their investigation. They probably cannot by law have it entirely open unless Dr. Caner allows it.

I am going to extend to Dr. Caner the same grace that i hope would be extended if I were in his position.

I remember when David sinned by numbering the people and God gave him the choice of punishment. He said, "Then David said to Gad, "I am in great distress. Let us now fall into the hand of the LORD for His mercies are great, but do not let me fall into the hand of man." " I think I understand what he meant.

 

Just how did this whole thing come to light?

 

Saying this is about retribution is....well, retribution.

Some in the public do know because Emir and Ergun have not lived in a vaccum. Nor has Ergun acted in one. There are many who know these guys personally and thus have knowledge germane to the situation and allegations. These folks have been around the whole time. It's not like this is a hotel room encounter we're talking about. We're talking about what the brothers did during their childhood, teen years, etc. People know them. And thus people knew their situation.

Tom, I'm not saying you believe he should get off scot-free. I agree with you that the "off with his head" mentality is over the top. That said, I have referenced many in academia who have exaggerated claims or out and out lied and it cost them their jobs. Why should the secular academia's standards be higher than those of an evangelical seminary?

And as I stated earlier, no way I think he shouldn't be afforded the same opportunity for repentance and restoration open to any follower of Jesus.

 

I may be wrong here but I think you guys are over-reacting to the factory job thing.
I think all that Rippon meant was that Caner should leave the ministry for a "regular" non religious leadership job and I totally concur.
He would certainly not meet the qualifications for a pastor or deacon.

If he would just admit his lies he could begin his restoration. The problem is that the longer that he either denies his sin or or justs downplays it all as "misstatements" then restoration is not possible.

My hope for the whole thing is this:
1. That Caner will come clean totally.
2. That he will resign from all public ministry.
3. That Liberty will come clean as well for whitewashing it as much as they could.
4. That Caner would be restored to proper fellowship in his church.
5. after a time away, he can be restored to a teaching position.

 

Yep, sometimes the members of this forum are judge and jury on many issues that involve Christian behavior. I have been called a legalist when I stand on my convictions, but bring up a topic like this one, and the "legalist" comes out in MANY.

Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.......

 

What world do you live in?