Wine As A Beverage

I don't believe alcohol would fall under Romans 14. This would be to say that if one abstains from drinking alcohol then they are considered "weak in faith".

Using myself as an example I do not abstain because of a fear of my faith in Christ as being uncertain or that God might zap me or something bad might happen to me. Quite the contrary, I am so certain of my faith and salvation that I could go out this weekend to my old stompping grounds and get plastered with my old buddies knowing full well that it would not change my eternal life standing with Christ. But I know God would not approve of it so I choose to show Him my love by obeying His Word and not even look at it (lust after it).

 

Try a little hot cocoa. You'll get the same warm effect without the drug.

 

How about one of you guys explain for me the difference between "merry" and "drunk"?

Merry on alcohol means?

Drunk on alcohol means?

 

It’s when you reach a point in your life when you say, “Hey, I’m old enough to do this!” You pass from childhood to manhood; you pass from student to the ranks of the gainfully employed; you pass from single to married. Unfortunately, as you get older those rites of passage are punctuated less with an explanation point than with a sigh of resignation. I will experience a rite of passage in a couple of months when I turn 65 and go on Medicare (sigh…).

Are you saying something should be avoided because it’s pleasurable?

One big difference here. The tree of knowledge had been forbidden. Wine and strong drink have not.

Steaver, I don’t really appreciate your insinuation that I like getting drunk. I haven’t been drunk since December 1979. I do sense, however, that you are a reactionary on this subject who may at one time have been a problem drinker. I have seen many such crusaders in the ranks of former drinkers, former smokers, former overweight people, etc.

It says nothing about not drinking it. The clear message of this verse is not to cultivate a craving for alcoholic beverages because craving leads to abuse and all the problems associated with it.

Written by the same man who wrote this: “I thought in my heart, to withdraw my flesh from wine, that I might turn my mind to wisdom . . . .” Ecclesiastes 2:3 (proving that Solomon was not a teetotaler). And this: “Go then, and eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with gladness: because thy works please God.” Ecclesiastes 9:7. Translation: “Since your works are pleasing to God, you should go out and celebrate.” And why would Jesus say, “It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man.”? Also remember this. God makes the rules, He is not subject to them. See Mark 2:23.

 

"Weak" in that case does not mean in substance. One who has "weak" faith can be theoretically just as strong in it as one with "strong" faith. It's all a matter of what their faith enables them to do.

You have thrown around a number of KJV proof-texts for your point, but have not really done any exegesis or historical/grammatical interpretation. Being faithful to scripture means that we interpret it in light of its historical context.

There is absolutely no leg to stand on here. Alcohol consumption is not prohibited by Scripture, neither is a abstaining position made normative, and, during the long history of the Church, alcohol consumption has been widely accepted by Christians.

 

Full disclosure: I'm a tee-totaller (for reasons I'll explain later). So, this position has nothing whatsoever to do with a need, desire, or craving for alcohol.

However, there are some inaccuracies, IMO, that I think need to be addressed:

Look: Wine was wine. It was a fermented beverage. To claim otherwise simply ignores historical fact. Now...was it just like today's wine? Highly unlikely. But it was not Welch's grape juice. To insist it was ignores historical as well as textual issues. Now...of course Jesus never was drunk. No one in their right mind insinuates such. But He, and the disciples, did drink wine.

Why ther perjoratives? It is possible to have a discussion on this issue without tossing out such insults. You lose credibility with these kind of grenades.

Now...for my position (oft-stated): Even though I just made the points, I did...

Hope that clears it up.

 

GE:
Yes!
But the Bible doesn't tell us we are not to get 'drunk'. 'Drunk' is a very relative thing. The OT says be merry from alcohol, which is get a wee bit drunk. Exactly, a wee bit, 'drunk', that is, 'merry'. Like your song goes, get a little drunk, and you land in jail, is a little over little; but get a little drunk and pull that barge, helps, you know....

The Bible has no good word for over-use of wine. God may have given us wine for a very good trainer in behaviour and morals.

 

I may offend some here but I must make a few comments.

First,we are SUPPOSED to come OUT from among the world and drinking alcohol in any form is not being a seperate people.It really saddens me that those that call themeselves Baptist will condone the use of alcohol as a drink and in fact,if you read your church Covenant that hangs on the wall at your church,it very well may say that you agree to "abstain from the sell and use of intoxicating beverages as a drink".

It is also absurd that some here think that all 'wine' is alcohol.If you do a study about this,you will find that it was used to mean wine as in the 'fruit of the vine' which was plain grape juice.

Many will use the wedding and the water to wine example as an excuse to drink.But,if one will stop and think,they had alrady drank a huge amount before the water was turned to wine,now,if they had already drank a huge amount and then the water was turned to wine,they would have all been stumbling drunk and Jesus would NOT have done such.

The writings in Proverbs regarding wine and alcohol tell us to avoid these things and that us what we are to DO.There is NO excuse to drink alcohol as a beverage and to do so is sin.You can say that I am judging you,that is fine but I am standing on what the Bible says and it says not to look at it and that it is a mockery.

When the word wine is used it doesnt always mean alcohol,it in many instances means,juice.For example,in one verse it says that a little wine for the stomach is good but anyone knows that alcohol is going to make a stomach problem worse.It is talking about grape juice and not alcohol.

As I said,I may make some mad here,that is fine.If I did,I have done so standing on what the Bible says and not what man says.

 

Ag no, it's everything standing on what 'man' - John18 - says. it's standing on arrogance; nothing else. It's standing on fear to face "what the Bible says", honestly.

 

Wow.

The problem with making statements like that is that, in doing so, you separate yourself from other Bible-believing Christians, most of them, actually, who, regardless of whether they drink, believe the Bible does not prohibit it.

Any of us can slice small snippets out of the Bible to say what we want. Again, since this is obviously an issue of conscience, it is unhelpful to separate others like that. I respect your position on alcohol for your own life, but this is not a cut and dry issue.

As far as the "set apart to save" language of the Bible, I would think that would indicate the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and not be boiled down to legalistic rule-following.

 

Please explain the differences and why one is a good for you effect and the other is not.

So the scripture is telling us that once you are drunk (sinning) it is now time to stop drinking so you will not sin some more? Better take another try at explaining this one.

Please give reference.

 

So at twenty a person is a child and at the majical number of twenty one God zaps you into manhood.

You the one who said you like the pleasure you receive from the alcohol. What do you think that feeling is? It is called intoxication-drunk. Look it up.

Actually I always believed a little alcohol was ok as a Christian until I searched the scriptures more closely and had to accept the teaching as a whole.

You can drink it just don't look at it. Yeah, that makes sense. Now how would one "cultivate a craving"? Maybe by flirting with it a bit here and there? From your own testimony you have cultivated a craving for it, right?

Maybe take another stab at explaining the verse because this explanation has yourself going against your own opinion of it.

 

So I will ask again,

Please explain the differences and why one is a good for you effect and the other is not.

Let's stay on point,

So the scripture is telling us that once you are drunk (sinning) it is now time to stop drinking so you will not sin some more? Better take another try at explaining this one.

Thanks, I will take a look at it. In the mean time you take another look at Proverbs which states don't even look at it and see if you can come up with another way around it other than once you are drunk (in sin) you are to stop drinking so you will not sin.

 

The reading is quite clear and simplistic. Maybe you could explain why the scripture does not mean what it says.

You keep saying it, but have not proved it. You will also find that during the long history of the Church slaughtering heretics was widely accepted by Christians. Maybe it is best we stick to scripture rather than church history examples.

 

Actually drinking wine is good for you. It's a medical fact. Saying otherwise is simply incorrect.

I'm still confused here. If what you say is true, then why doesn't the Scriptures say that Jesus turn the water into the fruit of the vine. Sorry. It doesn't. It says wine. Ever been to a Jewish wedding? Hint: they don't drink grape juice.