Praying in King James??

Yes. It's a ridiculous song. And it makes the British mad, I think.

Anyways, it seems to me like there is a clear difference between speaking (and praying) and using a text from that period in song or reading. Most completed texts, as has been shown, cannot be altered without compromising poetic or theological integrity.

Praying that way doesn't really show reverence, in my opinion, but instead sounds stuffy and pretentious. For me, it's always a huge distraction. The only thing worse is when I hear someone speak or read a text that uses both interchangeably.

That's just one reason why the text to the "worship" song, "As the Deer," is one of the worst I've ever heard in a church service.

As the deer panteth for the water, so my soul longeth after Thee,
You alone are my heart's desire, and I long to worship Thee.

Horrible.

*Click, click...BANG*

 

You realize, of course, that those words stem directly from Scripture, right?

Psa 42:1-2 (ASV) For the Chief Musician. Maschil of the sons of Korah. As the hart panteth after the water brooks, So panteth my soul after thee, O God. 2 My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: When shall I come and appear before God?


Psa 42:1-2 (NKJV) To the Chief Musician. A Contemplation of the sons of Korah. As the deer pants for the water brooks, So pants my soul for You, O God. 2 My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. When shall I come and appear before God?

 

Annsni, here's an oddball prayer for you. Perhaps you've heard of him?

 

Yes, but they are not really true to the context. We love to do that...we cut little snippets that sound nice and use them as if it was a love song. This makes them nothing but devotional words and phrases.

Plus, there is no effort made to put them in good poetic form at all. It sounds absurd to sing "after thee...you alone..."

Lastly, look at the next stanzas, and you will see even more egregious misuse of scripture.

But we're still talking about textual cohesion, so I'll stick to the original problem.

 

Your signature line is a little hypocritical, dost thou not think?

It also is a prayer.

 

It is an old hymn text. I didn't say it extemporaneously when I closed in prayer at choir rehearsal the other night. Did you read anything I wrote above?

Please do not call me hypocritical.

 

Maybe the Thee's and Thou's sound better with a British accent. May I be excused?

Cheers,

Jim

 

It sounds hypocritical then, or at least inconsistent with the stand that you have been taking on the usage of words like "thee" and other OE words.
For example, you said:

There is nothing so bad about the usage of the word "Thee" in the song, even if it is mixed with "you." After all it is a song, and a song (as pointed out) based on Scripture.
However the problem is this: Those not familiar with neither the Scriptures nor the totality of the song, might come to the conclusion that this is simply another love song as they hear these first two lines. The name of Christ or even God is not mentioned, and it could simply be a romance song if that is all that is heard. So I may agree with you--it is not my favorite song, but for an entirely different reason.

You also said:

When a person prays in his own language, whether it be German, Spanish, Greek, Cree, etc., does it distract you? Does prayer distract you? I am a missionary. Every day I hear people pray in a language that I totally do not understand. Should I let that distract me? Should I come to the conclusion that their language is stuffy and pretentious? Don't you think you are being a bit arrogant here and coming to some hasty conclusions?

There are some on this board that have grown up with the KJV, and have memorized great portions of it--even entire books. The KJV is their language. They quote it and use it all the time. You can't take it away from them. To criticize a person for praying in a language that they have been using all of their lives is absurd. You suddenly want them to change once they become a senior citizen?? Lil' granny over there is a big ol' sinner because she keeps praying in that hi' flutin' KJV language that the pastor and his new flock of ccmer's can't understand??

 

I use Thee, Thou and Thy (not so much Thine) all the time when I pray. I don't use "est" on the end of words, though.

 

I actually said that I was fine with such language in older texts. It is better to leave them alone then to create problems by truing to modernize it.

I dislike the song for multiple reasons. The one you listed is one of the chief reasons. Others than that, it is just a plain poor piece of poetry. Really pure crud. It cuts small bits of Scripture out of context and superimposes it into the poetry to fit other purposes.

I'm not at all against people praying in their own language. That is not at all the point. Speak German, pray in German. The point is that it doesn't make sense for people to switch from contemporary language to old English when they start praying. It can be distracting and there's really no reason for it. We can pray in our own language.

If you have the KJV memorized, then quote the KJV. Much of the Scripture I have memorized is in KJV, unfortunately, because I learned a lot of it as a child. But it is theologically unnecessary to switch over to old English just to talk to God.

 

Annsni, here's the most recent inauguration prayer, less than two years ago.:thumbs:

 

I pray in my normal language (English accent) but have been known to use the odd Thee and Thou in reference to God. I suppose it is habit more than anything.

Did you know there is one area of England where they use old English in everyday talk? So, it is still around.

I think English tends to be more formal than does American or even Canadian, and that too may account for the Thee's and Thou's. I sure don't intend to change just to satisfy Americans. I know I would never use slang, even though I am a born cockney and raised using cockney rhyme.

I would tend to think that using the KJV is largely influential in praying.

Cheers,

Jim

 

You're certainly not expected to change. You're praying in your native tongue, so to speak.

 

I pray in an english accent so I sound smarter, the problem is I start to sound like Mrs. Doubtifire.

 

I don't intend to get into much of a theological debate here, but have you never heard of the Scripture:
"Our Father, who art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name."

Jesus was teaching his disciples to pray. He said to pray after this manner. Many of us still do (not that we quote the Lord's Prayer mindlessly as the Catholics do), but that Scripture is often incorporated into our prayers. Have you not read the prayers of the Bible, or perhaps you missed the Book of Psalms? Going back to the song previously discussed--it has been the prayer of many people, even in the KJV. So have many other Scriptures. The promises of the Bible are there. What will you do with them?

I know. You still want to make lil ol' granny a big ol' sinner because she luvs her KJV and uses that same OE to pray in. You just can't stand it cuz' she's old-fashioned an' you ain't.

 

Hmmm...that would be quoting an old text, which I've talked about here, although there's nothing wrong with quoting it from a new translation, either. "Hallowed be your name" would certainly also be acceptable. Either way, quoting an old text is not the same as switching over to an essentially different language when you decide to talk to God. Jesus certainly didn't intend that statement to mean "use the KJV translation" when you pray.

I don't know why you haven't understood this distinction yet.

I'm not making anyone into a sinner because of the way they pray. That point is nothing short of asinine, not to mention it is not interpreting anything I have said in good faith.

 

I durst not what I sayeth when I 'thee' & 'thou'?
It is an unknown toung unto me.

 

This is weird. I grew up in fundy churches, and have been KJVP my whole life. And I have never heard anyone pray like that. I guess if I heard it, it might strike me somehow at first, I wouldn't dwell on it. God doesn't specify a language. What do those folks in foreign countries who may not have a hundred words for "you" do ?

I talk to God in my Western Massachusetts dialect of English. The wicked cool one, fer sure. He's the one who put me there.