Unpaid pastors?

My father and grandfather both were unpaid pastors of OLd Regular Babptist chuches for many years. They're called moderators and usually preach as well as other pastoral duties...
Their thinking goes back to the apostle Paul haveing to earn a living while misnistering.

My Dad, late in life, though, thought that it would be better to pay the moderator a little something and or reimburse his expenses since the time it tolld to do the job becomae a financial burden on the pastor's family. He felt more people would be able to make the committment.

 

A pastor I know coaches baseball near Salt Lake City and tells me that the kids of the Mormon bishops (who are unpaid) seldom show up to the activities of their children.

 

GB: You wrote, "No pastor should serve for free when the people can afford something."

I disagree.

Now, first, understand, I have nothing against paying Pastors, but I think one reason we have so many false ministers today is that can be profitable, and where it can be profitable, greed invades.

In the Bible, Paul and the others kept up their own professions as they moved about doing God's work. The church helped them, but they worked.

I like paying a Pastor because it really IS a full time job, but if one can and will work for free, I applaud him for putting God first.

 

When the parishioners go to work everyday without pay, I will spend my 60-70 hours a week pastoring a church without pay. I think that is a fair deal.

Besides, I think Paul was the bloke who wrote to Timothy, a young pastor, that a "labourer was worthy of his hire" speaking of pastors.

The tone I get is..the pastor who works without pay puts God first, and the pastor who is paid doesn't. I don't get that. Makes me glad I am retired and no longer have to deal with that hypocrasy.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Amen, Amen and Amen

Jim, once again you have hit the nail on the head.

 

Many a pastor has hindered a church because he would work for free. He has hindered their responsibility, ministry and growth. It's much like letting a child live at hoome for as long as he wants and paying his bills. That child never learns to grow up and be reponsibile.

I would be willing to pastor a church for free if each person was willing to share the load and do the same amount of work as I would do.

One church I pastored was not growing and after one year I told the leaders they did not need me as their pastor. One of the men said to me, "What will you do." I told him, "It is not what I am going to do. It is what you are going to do." I told them that if they were not willing to work they didn't need me and they could join another church and we would close the doors. I also told them if they prayed and worked hard and we did not have enough money I would do whatever it took to help them grow and I work work a regular job and accept no money from them. After that meeting things radically changed. They came to me a few days later and told me they would do whatever I asked them. We started by praying and the men one by one went with me to do ministry. Those leaders let themselves be trained. Everyone of them within the next year were leading Bible studies in the community they started. All of the ladies in that original group were doing outreach to other ladies in the community. People were coming to Christ. The church did very well from that point on. Some of the prayer meetings were incredible times of earnest prayer and celebration. We saw God work in ways that we were praying for but we in awe when the prayers were answered. Today that church is doing very well and God is continuing to bless them.

I really believe some pastors are subjecting their families to their own selfishness in the feeling to be needed. There are many complacent churches in America that do nothing more than exist and are really not worthy of a decent pastor yet there are men who think every "church" building should have a pastor. A number of churches ought to close their doors because they are a disgrace to the gospel. Many a man has been beat up and left the pastorate because of churches that want nothing more than a social club and really are a hindrance to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

gb, et al., please remember this is a history forum. The original intent of Ben's post was not to ask for a debate on the merits of it, but to inquire of its historical existence and practice.

 

Jim and Any Other Pastor,

I certainly hope that I didn't give the impression that Pastors who are paid don't put God first.

I believe with all my heart they do, and that they SHOULD be paid so they can do Gods work instead of man's work.

I can see where my words might have been taken the other way, I was trying to express the view that I think GB is wrong to criticize churches if their pastor works for free.

I don't know anyone who works harder than the Pastor's I've had, but I will be honest here - -
where I live, the starting salary for a Professor at the local University is 40,000 annually. The Pastor of one of the larger churches in this city is paid $60,000 a year, given a car (which was a New Yorker last time the church bought one), and his mortgage is paid by the church. (150,000; my all brick home in a nice neighborhood has 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, a utility room, a built on storage room, a fireplace, cathedral ceilings, and a two car garage and my house is only valued at 70,000 in this market.)

That Pastor was a good one. I have nothing against him, but - - yeah - that comes down to a WHOLE lot of "stiphend" and it COULD attract men looking for a $150,000 house + $60,000 "living" expenses.

 

Just ran through this entire thread for the first time and uuuuuuu I'm feeling the love here --- NOT!

Reminds me of the educated/uneducated debate - the educated look down their noses at the uneducated and the uneducated look up their noses at the educated, both convinced the other is WRONG.

Here we have unpaid/paid looking up or down their repective noses, which in some cases seem to be bent.

What happened to God leading men into various ministries as HE SEES FIT not as some of you deem unfit? Isn't it God that prepares, and isn't it God that leads, and isn't it God that provides? If God leads a person to pastor for free, is that reason to tell the man he is wrong?

Just a few of the questions that came to mind.

 

I think it is the norm Biblically the Pastors should be paid, but they should also follow Paul's example of not using demanding this right of their people.

I have close friends who are Pastors so I have seen both sides. I remember one friend working his side job because the church could not support him full time.

He did this with a joyful heart, knowing God would provide in his time. I think it all depends on what the congregation is looking for in a Pastor.

Do they want someone to just preach? Or do they want someone who makes hospital visits, and plans and administers the business of the church as well?

I think supporting your Pastor fulltime should be the first goal of any fledgling church, even before building their first building.

It saddens me to see new churches do so many other things, whether it be building a new building or supporting international missions before they can even support their own Pastor. These other things are all good and worthy endevours, but we should not get the cart before the horse.

Having said all that there is the other side of this debate:

I have seen and heard of Pastors being nothing more than fundraisers. They are constantly compelling money from their congregations. They tell their people they are robbing God if they do not give 10 percent of the income to this local church.

IFBReformer
http://www.ifbreformation.org/

 

You said:
Frankly I think it would be good if preachers had to earn a living like the rest of us. They might get some idea of what life is like.

==The preacher should be supported by his local church. They don't have to have "secular" jobs in order to "get some idea of what life is like" they know all too well what life is like. They see it every day. Most pastors do more than preach seromons. They handle weddings, funerals, administration of the church, some even do church cleaning. I know one pastor who did a wedding and a funeral in the same week. What is so weird about that? They both had the same focus, the bride.
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You said:
This does not mean that I believe the church should not support the preacher for expenses incurred as he fulfills his calling.

==A career is a calling. If you think God only calls pastors you are being highly unBiblical. How about we only pay you for the expenses you rack up while fulfilling your calling. You know gas, food, supplies, etc, and required you to get another job to support yourself. What is the difference? There is none.

__________________________________

You said:
Furthermore, I believe that chuches showld be sufficiently small that we can know every brother and sister in the congregation.

==I wish for world peace and no war. Reality is reality and we must face things as they are. There have always been and there will always be large and small churches.
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You said:
These mega churches are becoming ridiculous. There is such a thing as starting mission churches.

==How many have you, or your church, started? The mega church I use to belong to has started several. Are you practicing what you are preaching? Btw small churches should start new churches as well.

This is what is wrong with many in our churches. They want pastors to be on call 24/7 for them, they want their pastors to have a message from God every Sunday morning, evening, Wednesday night, at every funeral, and speical function. However they don't want to support their pastor financially (them want him to get a, "real job") but they also want all of the above. What these people need is superman not a pastor. Or maybe they should be a pastor for one week and see if they can be a full-time pastor, support a family, and hold down a "real job" all at the same time. I doubt they can.

Martin.

 

izzaksdad

I am sure you could do my job as well if not better than I do. You see I am retired and I have seen a lot of pastors who work as if they are retired. I see that you are a pastor. Perhaps you are one of those, perhaps not.

I have obviously lost touch with this thread since my initial post of March 9. I made my initial remarks in good faith. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to repeat those remarks, just to put things in perspective:

”Frankly I think it would be good if preachers had to earn a living like the rest of us. They might get some idea of what life is like.

This does not mean that I believe the church should not support the preacher for expenses incurred as he fulfills his calling.

Furthermore, I believe that chuches showld be sufficiently small that we can know every brother and sister in the congregation.

These mega churches are becoming ridiculous. There is such a thing as starting mission churches.”

The above remarks were not presented as a criticism of any pastor but primarily to suggest that mega churches leave much to be desired. Big is not necessarily better. This can easily be seen by looking at the large colleges, high schools, and elementary schools. Church members become lost in a big church just like students do in a big school. Furthermore, many in the pastorate go directly from high school, to college, and to seminary and have no idea what it is like to work in the world for a living.

As I caught up in reading the posts on this thread I was deeply moved to see that they were received in the spirit in which they were presented. The Christian love that poured forth from many on this thread was overwhelming. I did not check to see how many were pastors, with the exception of izzaksdad and his remarks so overflowed with the love of Jesus Christ I could not restrain myself.

By the way I am retired and do not find the time to respond to all the counter posts on this thread. I am truly amazed that pastors are able to find the time to respond so graciously.

 

You did not identify me but you can read my remarks in the previous posts in response to your post. However, in response to your initial statements above may I state that my pastor is the LORD.

 

My grandfather [paternal] and three uncles were preachers in the Old Regular Baptist Church. My oldest brother and a cousin were preachers in the Old Regular Baptist Church. I had a great uncle who was a preacher in the Primitive Baptist Church. They all worked and fulfilled a pastors responsibilities as well.

 

And you would be wrong in that assumption.

If someone is called into the ministry, they will find a way to do all of these things.

My Pastor does all of the above that you mentioned every week.

In fact, he works 2 jobs outside of his pastorate.

On top of all of this, he still finds time to spend with his family, go play golf on occassion, travel to many church meetings throughout the state, and occassionally those in other states.

He is upbeat and cheerful on Sunday mornings, as well as any other time you might speak with him, and he does not neglect his studies.

He is just a typical Primitive Baptist preacher.