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What are the essential ingredients for a church?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by michael-acts17:11, May 11, 2011.

  1. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Well how about this? Would it be a church if they had a pastor, the pastors wife, one lady coming with her three boys. To this I am sure you would say yes but let's finish the story.
    The man was originally the only deacon ofthe church. He went to another church as pastor and was ordained. But never resigned his pastorate. When the pastor reseigned the original church he assumed duties as deacon and told the pastor he wanted the keys to the church immediately. His wife always saying this is MY church and I want let the doors close.
    Then a few months later he assumed the pastorate at that church and it has been him, his wife and that one lady and her children since.


    Is this a church in name only or is it a true church? Or is one main ingrediant missing the Holy Spirits leadership?
     
  2. David Lamb

    David Lamb Active Member

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    Don't worry about me - there's a KFC Drive-in/Take Away just a coupla blocks (see! I'm learning American!! We'd say, "a minute's drive") from where I live. I like the bargain bucket, and the spicey hotwings!
     
  3. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    There is a saying amoung many Southern USA preachers, If you don't like fried yard bird (chicken) you can't be a Baptist preacher, that is a requirement.
     
  4. David Lamb

    David Lamb Active Member

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    That sounds complicated. Let's make sure I have understood you properly:

    A deacon of Church A became the pastor (and presumeably a member) of Church B. Did his wife become a member of that Church B too?

    Then this former deacon returned with his wife to Church A as a deacon again at first, and assumes the pastorate, without resigning his pastorate of Church B. So Church A now has a self-appointed pastor, and in membership are himself and his wife, plus a lady and her three children.

    If that is what you meant, there seems a lot wrong in the situation - a self-appointed pastor, who is still pastor of another church, and his wife, who seems to look upon the church (or at least the church building) as her own.

    Is church A still a church? It could be, but it would need more information for anyone not in that situation to be able to say yes or no.
     
  5. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    First he never resigned as a deacon nor moved membership nor did his wife. He became pastor of the other church while still being the only deacon of church A and upon the pastor of Church A leaving he came in with the vote of the 3 or 4 members and became pastor. This church is now down to the folks I described.
     
  6. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    I agree that ANY fried chicken is good, but...

    In my opinion KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN can not be beaten.

    Best in the USA, best on earth, and if there is fried chicken in heaven...

    It'll be KFC!! :thumbs:
     
  7. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Church B, would be partly at fault for not ensuring that his membership was moved. Has it been made clear if the wife was attending church B, or was she still attending church A.
    Finally, did Church B only call him as an interim or...
     
  8. michael-acts17:11

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    I don't see the need for an official church membership(taking an oath & written role) within Scripture. I still haven't heard any responses to my other-culture example. Everyone is still responding in terms of culture instead of Scripture.
     
  9. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    The church is made up of the called out ones from the Greek, ekklesia.
     
  10. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    His wife attende church B but neither moved their letter. Church B called him as their bi-vo pastor. His mother in law attended church A.
     
  11. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    I have never seen a church require an oath be taken, not saying it doesn't happen. So if you don't have a written role how do you determine who votes on church business? How do you know who votes for the pastor to be called? So if just attending makes one able to vote on these matters that would mean if you wanted to let the pastor go you could bring your friends in and stack the vote to ensure you get what you want. With a written role it ensures things like this won't happen. You want find it in the Bible but a written role is for the protection of the church. IMO
     
  12. michael-acts17:11

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    ...still responding in terms of our culture. What does the Bible say? :BangHead:
     
  13. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    The bible of course is silent on membership. We are to follow the laws of the land. Titus 3: 1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

    Our culture and laws require us to be able to prove we have a membership. A church according to scripture is not to have by-laws, but almost every church is governed by them why to keep order in the church. Almost every church in their business meetings follow Roberts Rules of order, scripture doesn't require those either again it is used to keep order in church business. So too written membership roles help to keep order in the church, it doesn't violate scripture and helps keep things in order.
    Sometimes culture and laws which don't violate scripture are to be followed, if they violate scripture then scripture rules.
     
  14. michael-acts17:11

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    The original post was asking what are the Scriptural requirements for the existence of a church; not what are the cultural requirements. Everyone seems to be hesitant to answer this question with Scriptural passages.
     
  15. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    At least one elder/pastor.

    A group of people who love Christ.

    A stated membership, such as clearly shown in the letters to the churches. For instance, 1 Corinthians 5 commands us to practice church discipline. You cannot "cast out" someone, if there is nothing to cast them out of. You cannot send a letter to the leadership of an assembly, unless you know who you are sending it to.

    An organized assembly of believers, then, with at least one elder.
     
  16. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Did you miss my post #11 and #12?

    Also 1 Corithians 1: 2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

    The called out ones the ekklesia (sp).

    Ephesians 5: 2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

    Colosians 1:
    18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    Christ as the head of the church He has preeminence in it all.


    These and those in post 11 and 12 show a church and what makes it up.
     
  17. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    (reference: an official church roll)

    I Cor 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order
    for further explanation, go back to post 33 and read Heavens Dad statement

    Two - Mat 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

    And the purpose would be :
    Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ


    Of course with only 2 members - would you need committees? :laugh: :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #37 Salty, May 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2011
  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    3 things essential for a Christian Church:

    1. God the Father
    2. god the Son
    3. God the Holy Spirit

    OK: 4) You & (5) Reading your Bible to get the infusion of the HS through Scripture.

    That is all:godisgood:

    Peace
     
  19. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    He means fried chicken....but he forgot the potatoes & gravy.....oh & biscuits.

    Do you have sweet potatoes in the UK?
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I think this describes essential elements
    Chapter 26: Of the Church
    1._____ The catholic or universal church, which (with respect to the internal work of the Spirit and truth of grace) may be called invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one, under Christ, the head thereof; and is the spouse, the body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
    ( Hebrews 12:23; Colossians 1:18; Ephesians 1:10, 22, 23; Ephesians 5:23, 27, 32 )
    2._____ All persons throughout the world, professing the faith of the gospel, and obedience unto God by Christ according unto it, not destroying their own profession by any errors everting the foundation, or unholiness of conversation, are and may be called visible saints; and of such ought all particular congregations to be constituted.
    ( 1 Corinthians 1:2; Acts 11:26; Romans 1:7; Ephesians 1:20-22 )

    3._____ The purest churches under heaven are subject to mixture and error; and some have so degenerated as to become no churches of Christ, but synagogues of Satan; nevertheless Christ always hath had, and ever shall have a kingdom in this world, to the end thereof, of such as believe in him, and make profession of his name.
    ( 1 Corinthians 5; Revelation 2; Revelation 3; Revelation 18:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:11, 12; Matthew 16:18; Psalms 72:17; Psalm 102:28; Revelation 12:17 )

    4._____ The Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, in whom, by the appointment of the Father, all power for the calling, institution, order or government of the church, is invested in a supreme and sovereign manner; neither can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof, but is that antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ, and all that is called God; whom the Lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.
    ( Colossians 1:18; Matthew 28:18-20; Ephesians 4:11, 12; 2 Thessalonians 2:2-9 )

    5._____ In the execution of this power wherewith he is so intrusted, the Lord Jesus calleth out of the world unto himself, through the ministry of his word, by his Spirit, those that are given unto him by his Father, that they may walk before him in all the ways of obedience, which he prescribeth to them in his word. Those thus called, he commandeth to walk together in particular societies, or churches, for their mutual edification, and the due performance of that public worship, which he requireth of them in the world.
    ( John 10:16; John 12:32; Matthew 28:20; Matthew 18:15-20 )

    6._____ The members of these churches are saints by calling, visibly manifesting and evidencing (in and by their profession and walking) their obedience unto that call of Christ; and do willingly consent to walk together, according to the appointment of Christ; giving up themselves to the Lord, and one to another, by the will of God, in professed subjection to the ordinances of the Gospel.
    ( Romans. 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2; Acts 2:41, 42; Acts 5:13, 14; 2 Corinthians 9:13 )

    7._____ To each of these churches thus gathered, according to his mind declared in his word, he hath given all that power and authority, which is in any way needful for their carrying on that order in worship and discipline, which he hath instituted for them to observe; with commands and rules for the due and right exerting, and executing of that power.
    ( Matthew 18:17, 18; 1 Corinthians 5:4, 5; 1 Corinthians 5:13; 2 Corinthians 2:6-8 )

    8._____ A particular church, gathered and completely organized according to the mind of Christ, consists of officers and members; and the officers appointed by Christ to be chosen and set apart by the church (so called and gathered), for the peculiar administration of ordinances, and execution of power or duty, which he intrusts them with, or calls them to, to be continued to the end of the world, are bishops or elders, and deacons.
    ( Acts 20:17, 28; Philippians 1:1 )

    9._____ The way appointed by Christ for the calling of any person, fitted and gifted by the Holy Spirit, unto the office of bishop or elder in a church, is, that he be chosen thereunto by the common suffrage of the church itself; and solemnly set apart by fasting and prayer, with imposition of hands of the eldership of the church, if there be any before constituted therein; and of a deacon that he be chosen by the like suffrage, and set apart by prayer, and the like imposition of hands.
    ( Acts 14:23; 1 Timothy 4:14; Acts 6:3, 5, 6 )

    10.____ The work of pastors being constantly to attend the service of Christ, in his churches, in the ministry of the word and prayer, with watching for their souls, as they that must give an account to Him; it is incumbent on the churches to whom they minister, not only to give them all due respect, but also to communicate to them of all their good things according to their ability, so as they may have a comfortable supply, without being themselves entangled in secular affairs; and may also be capable of exercising hospitality towards others; and this is required by the law of nature, and by the express order of our Lord Jesus, who hath ordained that they that preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel.
    ( Acts 6:4; Hebrews 13:17; 1 Timothy 5:17, 18; Galatians 6:6, 7; 2 Timothy 2:4; 1 Timothy 3:2; 1 Corinthians 9:6-14 )

    11.____ Although it be incumbent on the bishops or pastors of the churches, to be instant in preaching the word, by way of office, yet the work of preaching the word is not so peculiarly confined to them but that others also gifted and fitted by the Holy Spirit for it, and approved and called by the church, may and ought to perform it.
    ( Acts 11:19-21; 1 Peter 4:10, 11 )

    12.____ As all believers are bound to join themselves to particular churches, when and where they have opportunity so to do; so all that are admitted unto the privileges of a church, are also under the censures and government thereof, according to the rule of Christ.
    ( 1 Thessalonians 5:14; 2 Thessalonians 3:6, 14, 15 )

    13.____ No church members, upon any offence taken by them, having performed their duty required of them towards the person they are offended at, ought to disturb any church-order, or absent themselves from the assemblies of the church, or administration of any ordinances, upon the account of such offence at any of their fellow members, but to wait upon Christ, in the further proceeding of the church.
    ( Matthew 18:15-17; Ephesians 4:2, 3 )

    14.____ As each church, and all the members of it, are bound to pray continually for the good and prosperity of all the churches of Christ, in all places, and upon all occasions to further every one within the bounds of their places and callings, in the exercise of their gifts and graces, so the churches, when planted by the providence of God, so as they may enjoy opportunity and advantage for it, ought to hold communion among themselves, for their peace, increase of love, and mutual edification.
    ( Ephesians 6:18; Psalms 122:6; Romans 16:1, 2; 3 John 8-10 )

    15.____ In cases of difficulties or differences, either in point of doctrine or administration, wherein either the churches in general are concerned, or any one church, in their peace, union, and edification; or any member or members of any church are injured, in or by any proceedings in censures not agreeable to truth and order: it is according to the mind of Christ, that many churches holding communion together, do, by their messengers, meet to consider, and give their advice in or about that matter in difference, to be reported to all the churches concerned; howbeit these messengers assembled, are not intrusted with any church-power properly so called; or with any jurisdiction over the churches themselves, to exercise any censures either over any churches or persons; or to impose their determination on the churches or officers.
    ( Acts 15:2, 4, 6, 22, 23, 25; 2 Corinthians 1:24; 1 John 4:1 )
     
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