They do not deserve a *State*

LE,

Someone could probably create a CMW(Christian Media Watch) and list quotes from people who call themselves Christians and make it sound like Christians as a whole are an awful bunch.

Deny it all you want but I think your feelings toward the Palestinians are driven by your wrongheaded dispensational beliefs.

 

I wonder if Noah and the other 7 thought their provision on the big boat was a great escape? Jesus is going to call us ambassadors home just like any country does when they're about to declare war, and then God's judgment will begin. Praise God! If we're saved, we're going up! The Lord himself will descend from Heaven with (a most glorious) shout, and the trumpet will sound and we will go up to be with the Lord. How you miss this from Thessalonians is beyond me?

Ken, It takes backbone to flatly declare that "there is no" calling away, but backbone guarantees no truth.

You folks generally have divided the Bible to include the 4 gospels in the new testament, where they are actually the culmination of the old testament. The new plan, which was kept a mystery in the Father, was revealed through the apostle Paul. If you simply accept that premise and look to the Bible for answers to your questions, they are all neatly laid out. Do you believe you are in a covenant relationship with God now? Are you viewing yourselves as spiritual Israel?

Israel as a nation is as far from Christ's redemption now as the darkest African nation.

 

You are going to be one very surprised, but happy man.

 

Because I don't buy into the false teaching of dispensationalism. Because I take the Bible as a whole and I don't pick out verses and passages and wrest them from the context of the entire Bible to chisel together an eschatology.

 

Thank you for your fairness. I have quit searching the archives since you concede the fact that you did indeed start the thread and I have no need to prove it. I will momentarily respond to a request by you to post names and articles of Palestinians advocating peace and an end to violence from terrorism.

Joseph Botwinick

 

By all means, we have been kept in the dark! Please link to all these groups and mosques where Muslim Palestinians have put an end to terrorism and taught their children that Jews aren't pigs! </font>[/QUOTE]

Time for the Palestinians to choose life By Bassem Eid

Issam Abu Issa

These are only a few names of Palestinian (among other Islamic nations) reformers who are speaking out for peace and an end to terror who are mentioned in Natan Sharansky's book which was mentioned earlier in this thread. I may not agree with everything they say, but they certainly are not terrorists who teach their children that Jews are pigs and they certainly don't want to push the Jews into the sea. They want I and what most Israelis want: Peace and an end to terror.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Interestingly enough, Jesus used this very illustration to describe the end times in his Olivet Discourse:

Matthew 24:36-41

Now, in this passage, who are the ones who were taken away and who were the ones left behind in his illustration of Noah? Was it the evil people of the earth being judged and punished by God, or was it Noah who was saved from the wrath of God?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Actually, it was based on more than that. It was based on my friendship with several Muslims who never condemned me because of my Jewish / Christian heritage. It was based on the evidence that started coming out that there were moderate Muslims in the world that were not willing to allow their religion be defined by those who exploit religion to justify terror and political agendas. It was based on the fact that Muslims started helping Americans find missing soldiers, I believe I heard a report that Muslims helped Americans find Saddam and his sons. It was based on the reality I learned about people living in fear before the fall of the Taliban in Afganistan. Go to the video store sometime and rent the documentary (first movie produced out of Afganistan since the fall of the Taliban) called Osama and I think you will get a good picture of what I am talking about. It was based on some information I learned from Jewish writers who have written strong defenses of the state of Israel, namely Alan Dershowitz and Natan Sharansky. There is more to my change of mind than a friendship with one Muslim.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Joseph,

Don't change the subject on me. You posted that praying for the return of Christ was the equivalent of delighting in the destruction of Israel. THAT is what I am taking you to task over.

Do I think EVERY Palestinian is a terrorist?
No.
Do I think the MAJORTY of Palestinians could have STOPPED the nonsense that goes on in their world if they really wanted to? Yes. I do.
Do I have friends who are Muslim?
Yes, I do. They moved out of the region because they couldn't stand for the violence to continue.

Do I think your comments about the 2nd coming are heretitical? Yes I do.

 

Jerusalem had walls in the Old Testament.

 

Are you referring to a comment of Joseph's or do you think that everyone who disagrees with your eschatology is a heretic and bound for Hell?

Joseph is not a heretic. He does not let people get away with posting nonsense.

 

From Mr. Eid's human rights organization:

Palestinians being murdered by Terrorists...Apparently, Israelis are not the only victims of terrorism in this fear society.

Some good news about positive steps forward being made by Abbas within his government.

further, while the Palestinian human right organization blasts the PA for corruption, they also recognize that Abbas is moving in the right direction. They also show a good sign of freedom of speech. They are talking more freely and a voice besides the voice of terror is being heard:

Corruption in Palestine under the shadow of the new PA

Joseph Botwinick

 

I don't believe Ken was flaming. You asked if Israel at any time in history besides today had walls, and Ken correctly pointed out that they did in the Old Testament. As a matter of fact, there is this whole section where they talk about rebuilding the walls to protect Israel from invaders.

Joseph Botwinick

 

What you think about me or my comments is irellevant to me. I stand by what I said.

Joseph Botwinick