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What is meant by Cals when they ask: do you believe "by our own ability?"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, Jul 30, 2011.

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  1. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    I recall the story about a particular Pharaoh in Egypt... :laugh:
     
  2. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    I looked at where you might have seen some hope akin to George Whitefields famous conclusion "we become Calvinists by the grace of God" and concur that perhaps the process is in motion! :thumbsup: :laugh:
     
  3. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I am what I am--a Biblicist!
     
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Oh yeah, the one God judicially hardened after he hardened his own heart.
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Ive heard that a few times lately....but what is it actually?
     
  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I am not a Calvinist and did not go to a Calvinistic college.
    The same can be said for Arminian. I am certainly not Arminian.
    As I study the Bible on my own I arrive at my own conclusions, not those of any one person or system. For example I am a dispensationalist because of my own study. But I may not have as many or as few dispensations as others.

    I have come to conclude:

    And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. (Ecclesiastes 12:12)
     
  7. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    I seriously doubt you're a dispensationalist via your own study alone. I do however embrace your own words that you come to your own conclusions.
     
  8. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    No. You affirm it everytime you have the opportunity. You assert that all men are walking about with all sins forgiven, yet one thing is lacking. What is that one thing?
     
  9. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    See what I mean? Everything is from God so all things are hallowed. They're in effect saying there is no difference between the flesh and the spirit. Mormons say that.

    Is the citing of verses necessary to rebut an error so elementary and basic?
     
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    By my own study doesn't mean I exclude the books/works of other men and teachers.
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    VIII Parrot Disease

    And how do they hear without an ear to hear what the Spirit says?


    Every day a jailor brought the prisoners their food, and as he laid down the dishes he would say a word to them. If their meal was flesh he would remind them that they were eating corpses, or give them some account of the slaughtering: or, if it was the inwards of some beast, he would read them a lecture in anatomy and show the likeness of the mess to the same parts in themselves. Or if the meal were eggs he would recall to them that they were eating the menstrum of a verminous fowl, and crack a few jokes with the female prisoner. So he went on day by day. Then I dreamed that one day there was nothing but milk for them, and the jailor said as he put down the pipkin:



    "Our relations with the cow are not delicate—as you can easily see if you imagine eating any of her other secretions."



    Now John had been in the pit a shorter time than any of the others: and at these words something seemed to snap in his head and he gave a great sigh and suddenly spoke out in a loud, clear voice:



    "Thank heaven! Now at last I know that you are talking nonsense"



    "What do you mean?" said the jailor, wheeling round upon him.



    "You are trying to pretend that unlike things are like. You are trying to make us think that milk is the same sort of thing as sweat or dung."



    "And pray, what difference is there except by custom?"



    "Are you a liar or only a fool, that you see no difference between that which Nature casts out as refuse and that which she stores up as food?"



    —C. S. Lewis, The Pilgrim's Regress




    You are like the jailor. You can see no difference between the flesh and the Spirit. Both are from God, but one He does not receive, and the other He does.
     
  12. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I wouldn't expect you to get it and you didn't disappoint. Have fun erecting your strawmen not wasting my time.
     
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    So People like Pink, A Rogers, Spurgeon, Luther, Edwards etc have no relevance to you then. I wonder, do you think the HS had enlightened these folks so that they could in-turn do the same for you or do you as a "Blblesist" consider it your responsibility to extract it directly from Scripture.....is that what you mean by biblesist?

    Then does any Confessions of faith serve you or do you consider them also as null & void? This is interesting this "Biblesist" moniker ....to me at least. Anybody else care to comment?

    OK read it again YOU DONT EXCLUDE other men...my apologies, read it wrong.
     
    #193 Earth Wind and Fire, Aug 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2011
  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I have read plenty of Spurgeon's works. I read some of Pink's. The others I don't have. The Holy Spirit works through his word, not through commentaries. That doesn't mean I don't learn through commentaries, but the Holy Spirit speaks to me when I am meditating on His Word.
    A Biblicist is simply one who follows the Bible.
    A Baptist has as one of his major distinctives that the Bible is his final authority in all matters of faith and doctrine. So it is with me.

    I don't normally look at Confessions of Faith. For one, I don't have any to look at. I use my library more than the ones on-line. And secondly I don't find that a Confession of Faith would be particularly helpful.
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    What if you find the bible appearing to contradict itself...what do you do to resolve the problem?
     
  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    "Read to reject."
    In other words read with an analytical mind.
    Most of the commentaries that I have are written by Calvinists when you consider men like Barnes, Matthew Henry, etc. Right now in the thread on the kenosis theory their works are helpful. But when it comes to eschatology I may have to find another source. I have Keil and Delitzch on the OT. They are liberals believing in the JEDP theory and other liberal ideas. I reject those things when I read them. But I know they have an excellent knowledge of Hebrew, so when it comes to the meanings of Hebrew words they are fairly reliable. That is what I mean by "Read to reject." Reject the bad, accept the good. No one is perfect on everything; not even Spurgeon.
     
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    My turn to not read your post carefully.
    There are many places where the Bible appears to contradict itself.
    Usually further study clears up any contradictions.
     
  18. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    ---------------------------------------------
     
    #198 Aaron, Aug 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2011
  19. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    You need to be specific. Blanket and unfounded accusations serve no one. Reply to a specific quote or point it out and explain why you think its an assumption on my part then we'll be engaging in a discussion rather than senseless banter.
     
  20. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Why when the "supernatural" one (regeneration) is the only one that has the desired effect?
    If you read what I wrote you will see that I acknowledged that God COULD have simply changed Jonah's will by making his heart obedient, but that God CHOSE to work through normative means, thus showing just one example of God's choice to work through such means.

    True, but not through the irresistible "supernatural" means posed by your theological system. And even in the case of Jonah, where God is working to change the will of a believer we see God using such normative means to effectuate change. How can one be expected to believe that God would go to those ends to bring Jonah's heart into submission and then merely flip a regenerative supernatural switch on for those who hear Jonah's message so as to make them willing to believe and repent? I'm not saying God couldn't do that, just that it's never taught in scripture. God works through normative and resistible means.

    He may sovereignly intervene to guarantee his messengers preach His truth (as in the case with the inspiration of scripture or the sending of a prophet), but that in no way proves he works through some supernatural regenerative means to guarantee certain members in the audience belief their message.

    Was Jesus' prayer to allow this cup to pass from him in accordance with the divine will, or a heartfelt expression of grief from someone living in real relationship and responding to real life circumstances? I think you over systematize some things. We converse with God like a son to a father or a friend to a friend, not like slave to a master who has predetermined all that you are going to say and all that is going to happen. There is no real relationship in that, IMO, regardless of how similar the inner workings might be to that finite understanding of infinite matters.

    As if the whole "so why do you Arminians pray for the lost" is a new one? Come now. My point in making this argument was to show the same false dichotomy can be set up against your system as well. I thought you were well versed enough in both camps to recognize the correlation. I should have made the connection clearer.

    And there you have it. We can certainly pray for the same reason, if no other. We both believe our prayers are a part of the redemptive process, whether effectually actuated by divine decree or permissively ordained by the same.

    You don't know that because I don't despise you or any one calling themselves Calvinistic. As I've testified numerous times, my brother and my best friend are both Calvinistic believers and I love them both dearly. I simply think they are mistaken regarding this one point of doctrine. Nothing more.

    Nor would I and the fact you think I might only goes to show you've yet to truly understand the doctrine you appear to reject and despise.

    I agree.

    I just believe that God gets more glory when He makes genuine appeals for reconciliation rather than fake ones.
     
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