Featured Are Mormons Biblical Christians?

This is a very good site, and this is one paragraph from it:

http://www.biblelight.net/prgtory.htm

​

 

Wow, I disappear for a week and the whole thread grows by leaps and bounds while I am away! I've got a lot of catching up to do!

DHK, thanks for posting this! I've spent a while trying to weigh salvation by faith vs. salvation by works for a long time and what you've said actually does help make things clearer for me. I appreciate that!

This actually surprised me! I had no idea there would be this much conversation about Purgatory in my absence.

I do agree, Bill. I didn't expect to read lots of pages on Purgatory alone when I got back. I'd love to get back into why y'all believe that Mormons aren't Christians.

 

Folks, I came across this link today and finally was able to find some scriptural basis for why certain Mormon beliefs that I thought were valid do go against the Bible's teachings. After many years, I've had to revise some of my own beliefs.

This particular section deals with the Trinity, specifically Jesus being God:

I was wrong about the Trinity. I've never, ever understood it fully....and still don't. But the verses above do prove that Jesus in fact said that he was God. So if that's the case then the Trinity must be real. I don't understand how three beings can be the same. I really don't. But apparently, they are. God forgive me for my lack of understanding.

There is still much for me to learn though.

 

Whats a BMW?

This is about atonment not sanctification Did you forget Mark 5:48?

How do you know that? That can only happen if you have acheived perfect sanctification. Obviously, for most this is not the case. Look at for instance Isaiah in chapter 6 look what occures

Isaiah says that he is a man of unclean lips Also note he's in the presense of God. Look what happens next

He burned his mouth because it wasn't submitted to God. And God wanted him to submit his mouth to him and speak the truth. In a sense purgatory works this way. Except for Isaiah it was about attoning for sin. Yet the the view is the same "worldly attachments".

Again how do you know that?

Do you consider the bible a work of fiction? Lets look at this verse

Sins are one aspect, the very begining. Sanctification is much more than just being sinless. If you look on a line if the right hand side is the Perfection of the love of God in every thought word and deed then sin is as far left of that as you can get. God isn't satisfied with just forgiving our sins he wants us to be restored to the perfect beings he always intended us to be before sin. He not only wants us to stop sinning (the beggining) but he wants us to perfect our love for him in all aspects of our life. In essence we wants us to be Christlike. What does Paul say?

sin has brain washed us into thinking after the pattern of this world. God wants us to transform our minds entirely get rid of our current programming and reprogrammed into his mind set.

Ie the doctrine of attonment not sanctification.

again atonement.

So you no longer have any issues that aren't subjected to God like maybe over eating? Attachment to beauty? The desire for weath and comfort over God? In fact do you not still struggle with sin? Have you attained the perfection of Jesus Christ? Paul says he hadn't are you claiming to be greater than Paul?

I've showed you how purgatory is reached at in the bible you just disagree with the interpretation because you hold to your Tradition.

Ok I believe in the bible which means I believe in the Trinity, Original Sin, Purgatory, etc....

No you choose your interpretation of the bible

You always have to get in your last barb, insult of the Catholic Church.

 

British Motor Works, a high end car like Cadillac. Like the rich man of Luke 12, you can't take them with you when you die.

Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
--Learn from the words of Job.

:laugh: Mark 5:48? I think the translaters moved it into the Apocryphal books. It is now found in in the fifteenth chapter of Daniel.

Are you serious? How do I know that a person cannot take any worldly attachment into heaven? What are you planning to take? Your savings account? Your money will be of no value. What else? Your TV, Computer, etc.? You really believe you can take things into eternity?

Have you ever seen a person die and take something with him as he passes into eternity? Has anyone ever witnessed this? We have people who work in hospitals on this board who witness death on a regular basis. We can ask them if, when they die, any of the surrounding things that they possess go into eternity with them.

Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither:
--Believe me. Job was right.
And just so you are not confused, this is the post of mine that you were answering:

"Worldly attachments are left behind at death."

TS, You can't take anything with you.

Note that he is not in the presence of God.
Isaiah 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
--Those simple words "I saw," mean: "I saw," (as in a vision).
"No man can see God at any time and live," the Bible says many times.
The only way people could see God, was through Christ. He revealed the Father. Isaiah had a vision. He was on the earth, in the year that King Uzziah died.

More evidence that he was on earth. If he were in a glorified body, one that could enter heaven, he would not have been burnt.
Secondly, Isaiah was submitted to God. If he wasn't, he would not have received such a vision.
The live coal touching his lips was symbolic of purification as the text says it is. There is nothing about submission in those verses. Read them again:

Isaiah 6:6-7 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
--The emphasis is on purification, a coming into the presence of God. Every Christian must come into the presence of God, having first confessed his own sins. What does it say in James:

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
--James is a practical book and puts things quite bluntly. If a Christian is to draw nigh to God, he must make his life right first.

God wanted to give Isaiah a vision of his glory. That vision is what motivated Isaiah to do service for the Lord.

Isaiah was not making an atonement for sin.
There is no such thing as purgatory. There are no worldly attachments after this life. When you die you die. You can't take anything with you.

The fiction is all yours. You can't take anything with you--not in this age or in the age to come (which is after death), and that is all that that verse refers to. You have one life to live. In this life you have choices to make. If you don't trust Christ you will live eternity in hell. If you do trust Christ you will go to heaven. There is nothing between. If you have trusted Christ, then what you do for Christ now (your sanctification) you will lay up in heaven as treasure.

No one attains sinlessness until they reach heaven. Hence the futility of Purgatory. It is not needed.

He did that on the cross, and when I believed he justified me completely. My sins are all forgiven. There is nothing more that anyone can do.

And the Holy Spirit works in the believer to that extent. It will be fully accomplished the day Christ comes again or when I get to heaven. There is no purgatory.

Be not conformed to this world. Be conformed to the image of Christ.
That is done in this world, not in a mythical Purgatory.

All those sins are under the blood. I am perfect as God looks on me clothed in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. The process of sanctification takes place on this earth and only on this earth. There is no such thing as the myth of Purgatory and it can't be shown from the Bible. There is not one verse that gives evidence for it.

You have shown me nothing but metaphysical and existential gobbledy-gook. I hold to the Bible. If my tradition is the Bible I am fine with that.

Purgatory is as much in the Bible as Peter Pan is.

 

Oh. I get it now. BTW I thought it was Bavarian Motor Works. I don't disagree. You can't take material stuff into the Next life. However, thats not what "wordly Attachments" mean. Its like your life's priorities.

I know the book of Job well and again you are showing ignorance of what "worldly attament" actually means.

My bad, I meant Matt 5:48. But you probably know that. In other words

Again you purposely misinterpret what worldly attament is. You want to equate it to material things. But its about priorities on living your life. To re-inforce and idea SANCTIFICATION.

Again you are being purposely ignorant of what "worldly attachment" means.

Since, I have explained what worldly attachment actually means this is a non siquitur.

Since you don't know what "worldly attachment" actually mean. You are confused. I am not and have never said you will take material things into the next life. However, you do take your worldly mind and way of thinking and worldly way of looking at things. These aren't properly subjected to God.

exactly my point. You have no idea what worldy attachment is. You think its material things which shows the level of your theology. You can't get beyond the five senses.

Oh, yeah thats right. Thats why he said

and

He was watching TV. I forgot they had those 3,000 years ago. I guess Paul wasn't taken up to Heaven either.

[

And explain why is that? Because of his presense. And why is that? Because God is a consuming fire.

Is. didn't say he saw threw Jesus. How about John in his "vision" he was taken up to heaven. Do you think he didn't experience those things?

It doesn't say in that vision that jesus revealed the father.

Ah so you do believe in purgatory. Funny.

Yeah, I'd like to see someone touch your mouth with burning coal and see how symbolic you feel it was.

He obviously was not worthy to carry the message until the coal was put on his lips.James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
--James is a practical book and puts things quite bluntly. If a Christian is to draw nigh to God, he must make his life right first.

Oh. And all this time I thought it was Isaiah's love for God.

Oh. So the angel lied to him. I didn't think Seraphim did that.

Again you persist in your ignorance of what "worldly attaments" are. So shallow a view. Of course you can't take material things with you. But you do your attitudes and behaviors. and if they aren't perfect in love they get burned.

Nope Purgatory has been around a lot longer than me and the reformation

Again applying the wrong critrea to the wrong consept. You're not even debating with me you are debating ancient Egyptians or Vikings Certainly not the RCC.

Since no one as you say attains perfection on earth Purgatory is needed.

AGain atonement vs. Sanctification confusion.

Yes it will through purgatory.

according to your own words it isn't done perfectly in this world.

again atonement vs. Sanctification confusion.

again you hold to your personal interpretation of the bible not the bible itself.

Great! Show me where Peter Pan is.

 

I have read through your answers so let's get this straight. Words have meanings. You don't get to redefine words. "Worldly attachments" are "attachments to the world," as the phrase indicated. Some are attached to money, some to cars, some to computers, etc. The things of the world are material things. If there is one on the board here who doesn't know the definition of English words it is you. You don't have the authority to make up words and phrases and then assign your own meaning to them, and thus confuse everyone.

I know what "worldly attachments" are. They are the material things of this world that people find themselves attached to. It is materialism. I do not accept your definition. So most of the points you have tried to make are moot as far as I am concerned.

No, I am not. You are confused.

The word "perfect" in Mat.5:48 is the Greek word teleios, which means "complete." I am complete in Christ. It does not mean sinless.

Your wrong definition allows you to come to wrong conclusions.

I am not the one that is ignorant. I am quite aware of English words and their meanings.

A dictionary will help you.

When I am raptured to glory there won't be anything that is carnal or fleshly taken to heaven. It will be a spiritual body and mind. Your whole premise is wrong.

I don't have to. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord--not to be present in Purgatory!
You deny the Scriptures.

More ignorance of Scripture. Paul had full confidence of going straight to heaven.
Philippians 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
--He had two choices before him:
1. to remain on earth and be with the Philippians, or
2 to go straight to heaven and be with Christ.
--There was no Purgatory, no intermediate place, no middle ground.

1. The context does not give any indication that he was not on earth.
2. The Hebrew word for "I saw" indicates that he was seeing a vision.
3. There is no reason to believe that he was transported to another place. In other scriptures details such as that are usually released.

It tells us that John was taken up to heaven. He saw many things that Isaiah never saw, and that Paul never saw. It is recorded for us.

I am not speaking of that vision. Jesus came to earth to reveal the Father to mankind.

I don't doubt that he felt something. The action taken was symbolic.

It was a symbolic action just like baptism is symbolic. The only thing baptism does is make one wet. But since you don't believe that I will use another symbol. How about a wedding ring. The ring does not marry a couple. It is only symbolic that they are wed.
James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
--James is a practical book and puts things quite bluntly. If a Christian is to draw nigh to God, he must make his life right first.
[quote[Oh. So the angel lied to him. I didn't think Seraphim did that. [/quote]
The angel didn't lie. You have by misquoting the Word of God.
Isaiah 6:7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged. (KJV)
Isaiah 6:7 He touched my mouth with it, and said, "Behold, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away, and your sin forgiven." (WEB). I didn't see a translation that says "atoned." You must have made it up.

Not my ignorance.

So have false teachers.

No, I have the right people.

I have a perfect standing before God. That is all that is needed.

The confusion is yours.

There is none. It isn't in the Bible. Not one verse you have shown.

 

Mormonism has a non biblical view on very nature of God, as deny Eternal God, as they are a vast number of 'gods", and all commited male mormons aspire to becoming a god after death!

NO Holy spirit, the Father has fleah and bones, Jesus was a son of God, as was Lucifer...

they hold that God came to eath and had actually sex with mary to produce jesus...

Hold to saved by grace and faithfulness to mormon ceremonies/baptism

Hold that ALL go to 1 of 3 heavens...

Hold that their extra biblical books fully as inspired from god as bible was...

Wrong Gospel/jesus/Bible/prophet

Claims to be the restoration of real christianity, as per Angel Morani, but is really getting revelation from satan, not God!