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Featured Must we be calvinists?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 12strings, Feb 10, 2013.

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  1. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    If you are being humorous...OK I accept that. If your intent is to poke, prod and agitate then I suggest you grow up just a bit.
     
  2. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::applause:
     
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Well tell me....did the Calvinist scum burn down a town or two? All scoundrels you know!
     
  4. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94 Active Member

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    Usually I don't "quote" an entire post this size, but this one bears repeating.

    Thank you, SN, for telling it like it is. Like many others on this board, I'm getting sick to death of certain posters taking over this board to bicker about Calvinism. The spirit here lately is such that I have been staying away from BB as it is not edifying or uplifting, or even an atmosphere where one can truly LEARN. It's turned into childish insults and stupidity. This is precisely why BB got rid of the C/A forum in the first place, but now those debates are contaminating the rest of the board.

    I think we should either have a private C/A forum and/or ban the posters who continue to spam the board with their elementary behavior.
     
  5. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I meant no insult by my last post to you.
    I don't believe man is depraved. It's true we are sinful but depraved is taking man's sinfulness to far. For instance I kept some of those Laws. Being depraved is "2. A. Corrupt; wicked; destitute of holiness or good principles."
    Depraved is worse than a sinner. Keeping the Law in part is not destitute of good principles.
    I believe in election though it is not forseen but granted when we accept Christ. We are chosen in Him. Not because of foreknowledge.
    I did not choose faith. I acquired it from hearing the gospel and I was convinced.
    I agree we can resist grace
    I disagree we can loose our Salvation.
    Everything I believe in is supported by scripture. There is only one point that Arminianism is right about and that is we can resist God. The Bible is full of men who did just that.
    Does one point make me Arminian. since I didn't get this belief from Arminians? I don't believe so because many resist God the Jews did and so did I in the beginning of my life. As well as everyone on the planet. It's called rebellion all through the Bible.

    That depends on how many points. I'm called Arminian and I only agree we can resist God
    No that isn't it at all. I object to being called something that I clearly am not. You on the other hand wish not to be called Calvinist because of Calvin's unchristian behavior. I believe you are at least a four pointer that does make you a Calvinist. I believe being called a reformer is just as bad as being a Calvinist. Maybe worse since the RCC is one of our worst enemies. Reforming the Catholic faith is exactly what reformer means to Christianity..



    Is individual election the only part of Calvinism you believe in? I see where Calvinism as a whole is supported by each of the 5 doctrines and when even one is missing Calvinist become confused.
    At any rate your view of election would be rejected by Arminians and by our Church and so would the Arminian view. We are chosen because of our faith not because of foreknowledge or, fate.
    The bottom line is that if you went to any Church to apply for a preaching job you would be questioned about what you believe. If what you believe didn't line up with that churches belief you would not be hired.
    MB
     
  6. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    Thanks for the clarifications.

    I believe the "reformer" issue is a different issue for the historians, though I fail to see how re-instating truth into a church that has lost the truth is a bad thing. Don't forget, the AnaBaptists were reformers too, so at what point can we say, Yes, you came out of the RCC, but you have rejected their errors, so we no longer accuse you of guilt by association?
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    MB,

    Hello MB....this was addressed to 12 strings however i would like to interact with this post.
    This needs to be investigated some more. We can agree man is sinful ,but the question is to what extent.

    MB- any good that a sinner does is by the common grace of God.In other words God restrains wickedness to a large extent daily for the benefit of His sheep.
    7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

    Men are not as wicked as they can be.The idea of total depravity is more the idea that every area of man is crooked and perverted by sin, his mind emotions, and heart are all under it's power.

    Ok. We agree election is biblical.We do not agree as to when.
    9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
    Long before we were even born,God set his love on us, for His Holy reasons..
    Yes.....in the Covenant of redemption between the members of the Godhead.
    Biblical foreknowledge speaks of relationship;
    whom he did foreknow

    Correct....Cals agree with you on this.The Spirit gives a new heart so we can freely welcome God's word.


    many resist God's goodness and perish justly for their sins
    God does not lose any he SAVES...or we could not rightly say they were saved.

    MB- nobody willingly believes things that are wrong unless they are twisted.Everyone goes with what they know until they know better.

    A biblical arminian will have several areas of truth,or at least parts of truth.They are not consistent .

    Most do not want the labels because when the position gets trashed nobody wants to be identified with that label. Sooner or later what a person believes defines them. Everytime you meet a person you do not give them a 200 question checklist and quiz them on it.
    As you talk with a person or see what they post ...you get the picture of what they believe.
    Someone might come in here and say they are a christian, and yet quote from the book of Nephi,and keep extolling Joseph Smith.....they can say whatever....but the mormon label fits.
    Somes cals avoid the label as GT said...not to be deceitful but rather to make sure the label is biblically accurate and not a strawman.

    MB- everyone resists God that is why God effectually calls the sheep.







    .
     
  8. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    You won't like my answer though I have to be honest about this. I do not believe the RCC was ever right about anything. They were Augustinians and there in nothing in it that is truth as far as I'm concerned.
    This is another debate I simply disagree.
    Of course if you got this information from RCC church history I could give you a million reasons of why I do not believe it. AnaBaptist existed long before the reformation and were persecuted by the Roman church.
    I have no trust for anything Catholic they were not the first Church and they did not exist until Constantine. 325 AD
    MB
     
  9. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Thinking that I may not be as bad as God says I am is the root of sin. Too many "Christians" treat sin as a disease to be cured rather than the death sentence that it is.



    The problem is too many people think and teach that we need a Nyquil God when we need a Resurrecting God!
     
  10. Old Union Brother

    Old Union Brother New Member

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    Outstanding!!! treating sin as a disease is the type of religion that comes out of the council then out of sin mind set!

    Amen!
     
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Im glad to know that there are still a few of us that feel this way brothers....I sincerely pray that we can reach some from the younger generations before we pass on. LOL

    Well Im sure thats more work for the HS than for us.
     
  12. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Thanks for the kind words. There is a very strong third group on this board that is neither Calvinist, Arminian, but Biblical. Thanks for being on the same team.
     
  13. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Interesting that you mention this as the idea that "sin is a disease that needs to be cured" is one of the phrases used by the Calvinist pastor at the church that I left (described in a post earlier in this thread.)
     
  14. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94 Active Member

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    Exactly. Some of us don't feel the need to be marginalized and labeled one way or the other.
     
  15. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    Pick Me,Pick Me!!!!

    Pick Me.....I definitely want to be on this team too!:thumbsup:

    Bro.Greg:saint:
     
  16. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    I think this is demonstrably a reactionary position that is inaccurate:

    RCC believes in:
    -Deity of Jesus Christ
    -Virgin Birth
    -God the Creator
    -the Trinity
    -immorality of abortion
    -The Literal Life, death, & Resurrection of Jesus
    -Literal Heaven & Hell
    -The value in confessing sins to one another (if distorted)
    -And many other things you would agree with.

    So I don't see how your statement can be accurate.


    So you're saying the history of the anabaptist coming out of Zwingli's Church is not accurate, or simply that other groups (hussites, for example) held similar beliefs before the anabaptist name came along?
     
  17. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  18. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

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    Just my humble observation. As mentioned before I tend to lean in the direction of Calvinism. It seems to me though that individual calvinists tend to promote their doctrine with the kind of vigor that the catholics do with theirs.

    One thing I've noticed is in trying to get an arminian perspective by reading books written by arminian writers is not quite as easy as finding books on arminianism written by calvinists, which are obviously critical in nature. I've also noticed that regardless of my degree of agreement or disagreement on an issue, calvinists tend to be a little more precise when detailing their doctrine. This is not an admission that I believe that those doctrines are fully biblical, I do not for example believe that covenant theology as I understand it to be biblical.

    Roger Olsen is one arminian writer that I have consulted. When he talks about arminian theology plain and simple he makes alot of sense. In my opinion he ruins his work by interjecting personal experiences and what I preceive as a liberal opinion into the mix. So it is not hard to understand why a staunch 5 pointer would reject this man's work. Kim Riddlebarger does the same thing though writing from the calvinistic viewpoint but to his credit doesn't come off as liberal.

    Im not sure I'm adding anything useful to this discussion but if you start from post #1 and read the whole thing it is easy to see where opinins line up with doctrine to settle the matter.
     
  19. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Not understanding what you mean here. I believe sin being spoken of as a disease is not a doctrine but a simile. Sin is like a malignancy, left untreated will kill you.
     
  20. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    http://evangelicalarminians.org/

    Here is a good site with lots of Arminian info. It is being re-worked right now, but much of the material is still there, just a little less organized than it was, and hopefullly will soon be.
     
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