Featured is the Holy Spirit Involved in the "Modern Charasmatic' Movemnent at all?

Jude 1:9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" Peter said to cast out devils? No he said resist the devil and he will flee. BTW how many people by name can you see casting out devils beside the disciples or the Lord?

 

Biblical examples... The seventy (Luke 10). A follower that the disciples wanted to rebuke (Mark 9). Phillip (Acts 8). Paul did also. We as believers have been given a commission and the authority to do the same, as Jesus confirmed in the closing verses of Mark.

 

Couldn't give a single name.

 

The truth is that ... Historically, MAN has always been a spiritual moron!

Which just is my way of stressing the incredible point of ...
Without God's spiritual revelation, MAN doesn't have the first clue what spiritual Truth is!

If I didn't have so many delicious fruits, I would put you at the top of the list of MEN.

Buts, I duz, Tommie ... So, duz I make myself cleeeer?
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Hard to have a mature conversation with someone who acts like a teenager.

 

What.... you cannot deal with teenagers?

 

Dealing with them and having an adult conversation with them are two different things.

 

Some teenagers can act more mature than adults.

 

Hey, we've found a guy with some wisdom!

And, JK, some teenagers are saved, i.e. have some true spiritual understanding ... while many adults are not, and do not.

P.S. Please excuse the ramblings of a rather demented teenager below, but we is workin' on him.
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Perhaps, but I haven't met any.

 

What he said.

 

"My conclusion: Some of it I believe to be genuine or real, but much of it is not. So, to answer the OP: I would say, it depends. I have seen what I consider to be genuine workings of the Holy Spirit, and what I believe were counterfeit or even demonic workings. From some of the things I saw, I would caution people who get into this to be careful. You may have Satan sitting next to you instead of the Holy Spirit. I don't say this to be funny, either. I am dead serious. I became convinced of the reality of a personal evil force from the charismatic movement. And let me strongly emphasize this: Any time you see out-of-control or frenzied "worship", it is NOT of God!! God is a God of order and decency. Barking, grunting, wallowing around on the floor are not produced by the Holy Spirit! These are not gifts of the Spirit! I say this as a warning to anyone thinking of dabbling in this variety of the Charismatic movement."

IMO, this should be incredibly obvious to anyone who has the Holy Spirit,
and who has average intelligence, some common sense, and a little wisdom.

The only excuse for a Christian is if he/she is on the lower end of the 1 Cor 1:26+ group.
Thankfully, we're not all in this group, or we'd really be SOL.
E.G. Paul was a trillion miles above this group.
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That's a good point, and if the New Testament tells us to clear out hospitals then that's what we should do.

What we find in the Gospels, however, is that Jesus didn't always heal everyone around Him, nor did He go out in search of people to heal. He healed everyone who came to Him. He healed a lame man at the pool of Bethesda, but apparently He didn't heal any of the other disabled people there (John 5:2-9). He went in and out of the temple gate many times, yet He never healed a beggar there who was crippled from birth (Acts 3:2-8). There are a number of passages which say that Jesus healed all of the sick people in various places, but these were people who came to Him or who were brought to Him. These were not people whom Jesus sought out to heal.

Since Jesus didn't automatically heal everyone around Him, and since He didn't seek out people to heal, and since there's no record of Him going around emptying out leper colonies, we have no Scriptural precedent for trying to empty out hospitals.

If the Holy Spirit leads us to visit a hospital and go around healing people then that's what we should do. But otherwise it's not likely to be fruitful if most of the patients have not had their hearts prepared to respond in faith.

 

It has nothing to do with whether or not Jesus did it. It is simply because it cannot be done because by and large most claims of healing are fake.

 

You can not disprove the real because there is fake out there. There are fake christians too! But there is also the real!

One of the definitions of "authority" is:
"a power or right delegated or given; authorization"
Notice that the Jewish chief priests sent out Saul (later to be known as the apostle Paul) to arrest Christians, so Saul was acting on their authority:
Acts 26:10: "And that is just what I [Saul] did in Jerusalem. On the authority of the chief priests I put many of the saints in prison, and when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them."
Saul wasn't acting in his own authority, but instead he was acting in the authority of a higher power (the chief priests) who had sent him on a mission.

When Jesus sent out the twelve apostles to operate in His ministry of preaching the Gospel and healing the sick, He delegated to them the power and authority that they needed (Luke 9:1). Therefore, they were operating in His authority. When He sent out the 72 believers to operate in His ministry of preaching the Gospel and healing the sick, He delegated to them the task of healing the sick and said that He had given them authority over the enemy (Luke 10:1-3, 9, 19). Therefore, they were operating in His authority. When He sent out the Church to operate in His ministry of preaching the Gospel and healing the sick, He was delegating to us these tasks (Matthew 28:18-20, Mark 16:15-18). Therefore, we do these things in His authority:
Luke 9:1: "When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases,"

Luke 10:1: "After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go."
Luke 10:2: "He told them, "The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field."
Luke 10:3: "Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves." ...
Luke 10:9: "Heal the sick who are there and tell them, 'The kingdom of God is near you.'" ...
Luke 10:19: "I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you."

Matthew 28:18: "Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."
Matthew 28:19: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
Matthew 28:20: "and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.""

Mark 16:15: "He [Jesus] said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation."
Mark 16:16: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."
Mark 16:17: "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;"
Mark 16:18: "they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.""
When we heal the sick and cast out demons, we're not acting in our own authority, but instead we're acting in the authority of a higher power (Jesus) who sent us out to do these things.

Here's another way to look at it. One of the definitions of "in the name of" is:
"b. by the authority of"
When we're operating in Jesus' evangelism and healing ministry (which He delegated to us) then we're acting "in His Name," which means that we're acting in His authority:
Acts 3:6: "Then Peter said, "Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk."" ...
Acts 4:6: "Annas the high priest was there, and so were Caiaphas, John, Alexander and the other men of the high priest's family."
Acts 4:7: "They had Peter and John brought before them and began to question them: "By what power or what name [authority] did you do this?""
So when we're sent out by a higher power to do something, and we do it "in the name of" that higher power, this means that we're doing it in the authority of that higher power. For example, when a police officer says, "Stop in the name of the law," he has the full authority of the government backing him up. Since Jesus commissioned us to preach the Gospel, heal the sick, and cast out demons, we do these things in His authority. When we do these things "in His Name," this means that we have His full authority backing us up.

 

Jesus never turned anyone away.

He healed all around him that asked to be healed.

If there was any such thing as a genuine faith healer today he would have the power to heal all in a hospital but he doesn't. They are fakes and frauds.

Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Can they replicate what Peter did?
Can they heal ALL that came to him--from all the cities all around Jerusalem, thousands, never turned away one sick person, no broken bones, no blind or deaf people, not even paraplegics or quadriplegics. He healed them all.

 

I'll tell you what is sad, no tragic, about the Charismatic movement: the exploitation of people, the exploitation of their weaknesses, desires, dreams, needs.

The last Charismatic church I visited during my research placed the blame on one of their members for dying because of a lack of faith that this member would be healed. Right then and there was when I decided that I wanted nothing to do with such a "church". I have been Baptist all my life, but when I was doing my studies and research, I tried to be objective about all the denominations' churches and worship services I experienced. I enjoyed the different styles and varieties of worship, and I tried to see what was authentic and valuable about each. But one thing I noticed about a lot of Charismatic worship: It seemed as though there was an emphasis on being seen and heard, and it also seemed that the bigger the spectacle created, the more "spiritual" that spectacle was deemed to be. This to me is the antithesis to what Jesus taught. Further, there was an air of superiority, like "we've got something they don't have and we are thus on a higher spiritual plane and more spiritually advanced."

I don't know , maybe God has given me a gift of discernment about such things that would keep me from falling for such shenanigans, or maybe it's just a healthy dose of common sense.

But as I said, I believe there are genuine works of the Spirit in this movement, although not numerous, and I believe there are also counterfeit works, of evil origin, and much more numerous than the genuine. I further believe I have seen both. But one thing I'm sure of: Anyone exploring the Charismatic movement by personal involvement in their worship services had better be careful. You'd better be able to see and know what is of God and what is not.

 

Juanita Bynum dared a bunch of elderly people to empty out their bank accounts and give it to her. People like that should be arrested.

 

I agree. And not to diminish what you posted, but I have seen things much more sinister and dangerous. I know of one person who was damaged for life by what happened to him while in a Charismatic church, damaged physically and spiritually.

I never was as sure of an evil force as I was because of what I saw while researching this movement. Another example: I saw a woman ruin her life by listening to and following the advice of a visiting "prophet". And what a sideshow he put on! It reminded me of a mass palm reading!

 

Never said otherwise! Your point?

This does not hold water in the debate! Jesus did not clean out the leper colonies and HE IS NOT A FAKE!

MAny reasons why people are not healed today, but you can not disprove the real because of the fake!