Featured I thought I was saved, but....

Good words.

I believe David should also be used as an example in his Psalms concerning this 'getting saved over and over' dilemma. In many of his Psalms he is praying and seeking God for salvation from his enemies, bad health, his own sins, his failures, his feeling destitute, from being in despair, spiritual depression, doubts &c. Theologically speaking David could not have been seeking God unless he was born again, thus his life of seeking is a great pattern for believers to follow. Using his life by example, his is the life of a true believer, always turning to God in all sins and troubles, seeking 'salvation' from these things. Persons coming forward should be counselled this way personally and from solid Bible preaching.

 

"Theologically speaking" according to this Calvinist view (which, let's be honest, is exactly what you mean by "theologically speaking") the majority of testimonies in this thread were SAVED when they were SEEKING GOD the first few times, but then are not saved on the last one where God sought and saved them, because as you said, only a born again person can seek God and their final testimony was that God sought them, which begs the question, at which point were they saved?

Now granted, I already know what your answer will be (the latter), but unless everyone here was being dishonest, every testimony given was of a person who SOUGHT GOD BEFORE THEY WERE REALLY SAVED.

Theologically speaking, Houston there's a problem with this view.

 

Amy,

It is difficult to comment with certainty without intimate knowledge of a situation. In general the situation you raise in your OP is a perfect example of Finneyism run amok. Never ending altar calls that prey upon people's emotions to either come forward to be saved or rededicate their lives to the Lord. There is also a failure to preach accurately about sin and the progressive nature of sanctification. Philippians 1:6 says, "For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in your will perfect until the the day of Christ Jesus." Sanctification is an ongoing work. We are not perfect in our behavior yet. Because pastors fail to preach on this we have believers who fall into despair.

If genuine faith is met with its evidence, good works (Eph. 2:10), it should not be doubted. Often times the individual is having a problem with assurance; perhaps due to their battle with sin. It is something all of us go through. We need to remember it is not the profession of faith that saves. A profession is simply and outward expression of an inward reality. I counsel people who are struggling with their profession from the Word of God. What do they confess? Do they confess the truth of the gospel? Do they confess Christ? If they answer in the affirmative I tell them to trust in that, not their feelings.

 

Here are some results of finneyism;
by WR.DOWNING;
MODERN FUNDAMENTALISM AND EVANGELICALISM
NATURE AND CHARACTERISTICS
The influence of John Wesley and Charles G. Finney has been pervasive throughout modern Fundamental and Evangelical Christianity. Indeed, modern Fundamentalism and Evangelicalism are almost entirely based on either the doctrinal teachings promulgated by Wesleyan Arminianism and Finney’s Pelagianism or their modified forms. Much of what John Wesley held was limited to the peculiarities of Methodism until imported into mainline Christianity by Charles G. Finney. Some examples of this trend are:
• a high view of human reasoning that tends to rationalize and filter scriptural truth through humanistic presuppositions.

1034 J. I. Packer, A Quest for Godliness: The Puritan Vision of the Christian Life, pp. 318– 319. 375

• the grace of salvation is now thought of in terms of an unscriptural universalism rather than in terms of the Divine decree or scriptural particularism.
• the trend has been away from a strong and detailed confessionalism toward a very general doctrinal approach, an ecumenical inclusivism, or a narrowed separatist–isolationism—yet all are essentially Arminian or Pelagian.

• among some Fundamentalists, there is a trend toward gaining acceptability rather than maintaining a strong emphasis on biblical separation.

• a strong belief in free-will and human ability, with its corresponding idea of salvation and Christian experience.

• a thorough theological revision of the doctrines of effectual calling, regeneration, conversion, justification and sanctification. The call to salvation is general and ineffectual apart from man’s response in faith—a “faith” that is merely human trust stemming from natural ability. Conversion—faith and repentance—is placed before regeneration. Justification and sanctification are unscripturally separated. Sanctification is considered optional. This has produced a major shift in the idea of Christian holiness which includes the “carnal Christian” heresy.

• an “age of accountability” stemming from a denial of the imputation of Adam’s sin and a belief in a universal atonement.

• not only salvation but even sinless perfection apart from the Gospel and a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

• various “New Measures” that derived from their Arminian and Pelagian systems. Modern mainstream Christianity has embraced the whole evangelistic approach with its “revivalism,” the idea of “religious crusades,” “easy–believism gospel,” “altar calls,” or “invitational” system, and calls for “rededication.”

• an undue emphasis on an emotional–promotional–psychological type of “soul–winning,” attended by a de–emphasis on expository and doctrinal preaching.

• the lack of reverence in the pulpit ministry and public worship.

• testimony meetings and church services given to singing rather than to the centrality of sound doctrinal preaching.

• the unscriptural innovation of women in church and ministerial leadership.

• the retention of such teachings as “perfectionism,” “falling from grace” [the apostasy of true believers], and the “baptism of the Spirit” by some of the more radical groups [“Holiness,” “Pentecostals, “Free–Will Baptists”] in Evangelical Christianity.

• such phenomena as the “Church Growth Movement,” the modern religious notion of “self–esteem,” and Christian social activism apart from a gospel context.

• the contemporary attitude of many modern theological writers that they are either above or beyond the Arminian–Calvinistic controversies of the past, and write from a more “advanced” or “biblical” perspective. These individuals are usually Arminians or extremely “modified Calvinists” in their doctrinal persuasion.

376

• a down–playing a necessary and thorough ministerial education, theological seminaries have in many instances given way to Bible Colleges.1035 A thorough theological, linguistic classical curriculum has been replaced by studies solely in the English Bible, and courses in how to “grow” churches through programs and techniques.
Finney, then, became a catalyst which allowed the errors of some previous men and movements—Pelagius, Hugo Grotius, Jacobus Arminius, Claude Pajon, John Wesley, and Nathaniel Taylor—to enter into mainstream Fundamental and Evangelical Christianity.

 

Amy:

There are really two different cases we are talking about:

1. Is the case of someone who believes they are saved but in fact is not. We know these people exist (Matt 7:23). They believe they are saved. They believe they are justified, but they are not. Why not? There are several answers but the bottom line is they have put their faith in something else, often some good work. They put their faith in their baptism, their works, or in reciting a prayer, or in getting rid of all the sin in their lives, but they never put their faith in Christ. In many cases these are people who really do want to know Jesus, and when he reveals himself to them, they realize their mistake and get saved.
2. Is the case of someone who is in fact saved but has no confidence in their faith. They are saved, sealed, delivered, justified, however you want to say it. But the very first line of attack for Satan is the confidence of their own salvation. Think about it, if you are not sure about your own salvation you certainly won’t be sharing it with anyone else. Satan can destroy their testimony and ministry in its infancy if he can simply get them to doubt their own salvation. So he attacks, especially when they sin. “You can’t really be saved or you would not have done that.” Using the same lusts and temptations that are part of our natural state Satan will sow the seeds of doubt. Defeated and unsure of their own salvation they will never make disciples of others.

The solution for either of these cases is accurate study of God’s word. If you earnestly seek God, He will reveal himself to you. (Prov 8:17) Likewise, the cause of both cases is poor teaching and preaching.

 

Oh wow Amy I am dealing with this right now with my very beautiful wife. Back in the day when my boy was young, my wife encouraged us going to church. Then she was hurt very deeply by some church people so she stopped going. She has struggled with much in life but she is saved & puts her faith in Christ. Well yesterday the local Baptist church has an outdoor get together with a Russian Baptist church and my wife went with me to services & the get together. Almost immediately the wife of the American Baptist church approaches my wife & starts with the "are you saved " stuff...and it was quite aggressive. Guess what that was a big turn off..especially to someone raised Dutch Reformed. It was very similar to a dirt salesman attempting to close a deal. What this pastors wife did was just push her away further....and this is atributal to this Finnyism BS that's still evident in churches today. Honestly I perfer the Russian Baptist church...they are pure & don't have this baggage.

 

There is a problem with your understanding, theologically speaking. Jesus himself said that no man comes to Him except the father draw him.

The first time I was "saved", I was a follower, not a seeker.

The second time, I was trying to escape hell, not find God.

The third time, the time I actually came into the family of God, He sought me, brought me, and bought me.

And I love Him for it!

 

I never sought God and I was his enemy...for many reasons I hated him in fact. He however saved me dispite myself. Praise him for that.

 

Awesome answer!

 

Amy, like I said. It is hard to comment on specifics without knowing the details. 17 is still a very young age. My daughter was raised in a Christian home and knew how to act like a Christian, but she did not come to faith until she was a teenager. Truth be told, she fooled her mom and me. We thought she became a Christian in kindergarten when she made a profession of faith. With children it is hard to know.

In your friend's case perhaps her daughter was never saved to begin with. I would still approach it the same way if I was offering counsel. I would be more interested in what she believes as opposed to a profession. As in my daughter's case, it is possible to make a profession without any inward change taking place. I have been wont to say on occasion, "not every professor is a possessor." But when that the profession represents a true conversion is usually unmistakable.

 

Not really..... His 2nd example makes an argument for Carnal Christians. A Saved Person does indeed need to take serious issue with their sins. They must really take stock of their sins & make adjustments.....Christian life is a commitment, a change of heart, developing a conscience so your no longer a back sapping, lying bush whacker.... so somewhere in your walk you will need to recognize your sins, grieve over them & stop doing them....otherwise you really aren't a Christian....and your biggest sin is "the sin of unbelief" if truth be known.

 

Out of curiosity....were you reformed in those early days?

 

Anyone who ((sincerly)) places thier faith in Christ is saved, and saved forever....

From the scriptures...

Praise God!

 

Please Amy.....you are a saved person...don't let anyone tell you otherwise:love2:

 

Absolutely not! I'm made Arminians look like Calvinists. Bob Jones was calling me on how to be a good fundamentalist! LOL

 

Radical Grace....It's a wonderful thing isnt it?

.... I once was lost, but now Im found!:godisgood:

BTW....next time you play the Joisey links, try to get on the Panther Valley course.....in NW Jersey.

 

This. :flower: