Featured Does the Second commandment prohibit Films/paintings of Jesus?

read the verses again.....the prohibition was of .....making
or worshipping...not just worshipping...
Jesus himself...is the Image of the Invisible God......tab hunter is not Jesus.

Again...you are offering what YOU think is the question....

I am asking you ...based on what scripture do you say these verses do not apply to this? Answer with a scripture or two...first...THEN offer what you think on the scripture you offer:thumbsup:

 

Still not the issue. This would be an actual image of whoever. We have no idea how to make an image of Jesus.

 

Correct! that is why it should not be done......:love2:

 

The subject of this thread is same one I have had discussions, and some arguments, about in which I contend there are 8 1/2 commandments among the big '10 C's' that are applicable to Christians. The sabbath is not required of Christians, and first half of the 2nd cmd. is still required because it's repeated in the NT, and even compounded to mean "loving the good things of this world." But to not "make any likeness of anything" is not commanded to NT Christians, and if it were it would rule out photography, engineering drawing, computer icons, and countless other examples.

 

Thats a fair point.

 

All ten still in effect
A

 

If there is no clear teaching saying to do something different....best to stick with what was clearly given

 

A black man once told me Christ was a black man, read Rev 1: 13-16.

 

That's bunk. Unless you want to stone anybody who gathers wood on the 7th day, or never take or draw a picture.

 

This explains it:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/iconoclasm

"Iconoclasm noun
Destruction of religious images. In Christianity and Islam, iconoclasm was based on the Mosaic prohibition against making graven images, which were associated with idolatry."



The Reformation in National Context

"Iconoclasm was also a fundamental feature of the French Calvinist Reformation. Going far beyond the traditional, often anonymous and generally limited, gestures, of defiance of the holy power of images, Calvinist iconoclasm was far more aggressively desacralizing. Crucifixes were daubed with excrement and shrines desecrated."



Reformation and Iconoclasm

"Luther treated the removal of the images with relatively little passion. . . .in the city church of Wittenberg, where the "idols in paint" were torn down by Karlstadt and his supporters. Luther reacted to such crude incursions with an even more moderate attitude towards art works; more important than removing them would be to develop a new relationship with them based on the new doctrines. Unlawful acts were not called for."

"Although Zwingli agreed with the removal of the images, he spoke out against using any kind of force. He recommended covering the sculptures in the churches and closing the winged altars, as was done anyway during Lent. . . .In later days, Zwingli tolerated artistic representations, as long as they were not venerated but read as narratives."

"Among the reformers, it was Calvin who adopted the most radical attitude towards religious works and demanded that believers should make no images of any sort of God. The iconoclasts who viciously wrecked art works throughout the northern Netherlands in 1566 and "cleansed" churches from top to bottom justified their actions by reference to Calvin's doctrine. This act of devastation explains why so few paintings from before 1566 have survived in Holland."



What remains of a wood panel in Geneva depicting Mary and the infant Jesus (the faces were hacked off)

 

Alcott

You say this because you are mistaking the ten commandments for the ceremonial laws of Israel's theocracy. All men are under the ten commandments.

We are not under mosaic laws so why would I do this.

 

If we want to take Exodus 20:4 out of context and say it is not just covering worship, but also making of...

That would also mean we couldn't make any visual representation of things "in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

That would put a bit of a hamper on my photography hobby not to make any likeness of things on the earth...

 

Because you say all 10 are 'in effect' and that is the consequences for breaking that one. More to a practical point, do you no work on the seventh day? Neither you, nor your ox, nor your ass...?

 

Read Exodus 31. The Sabbath was given as a sign of the covenant between Jehovah and Israel and her generations forever. It was never given to any Gentile believer. There is no command for a Gentile believer to keep the Sabbath.

In Romans 2:14,15, it refers to "the law of God written on their hearts." What law? Most will answer "the moral law of God" which is the Ten Commandments minus "keeping the Sabbath Day holy," which command is given to the Israelites alone. It was never given to us.

Furthermore, the answer is "the moral law of God."
There is nothing "moral" about worshiping on one particular day of the week, as opposed to any other week. There is something moral (or immoral) about committing adultery. That is the moral law of God, and every society in the world knows that. It is written in their hearts. But to worship on "Saturday," (the Sabbath), that is not moral or immoral, and thus not part of the "moral law of God."

Also, Paul said: "One man esteems one day above another; another man esteems another day alike." Though the context may be different, the principle is the same.
The early church worshiped on every day, not just the Sabbath. Every day was the same to them. Every day they worshiped the Lord. Study Acts 2.
The Sabbath was not binding on the early believers.

 

The sabbath was in effect before the Mosaic law.The mosaic law is not in effect now.
The Lord's day{NT SABBATH} is in effect now.....

We get to keep one day Holy unto the Lord.It is a positive command made for man to be refreshed and rejoice in the God of his salvation.
here from the 1689-

Chapter 22: Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day
1._____ The light of nature shews that there is a God, who hath lordship and sovereignty over all; is just, good and doth good unto all; and is therefore to be feared, loved, praised, called upon, trusted in, and served, with all the heart and all the soul, and with all the might. But the acceptable way of worshipping the true God, is instituted by himself, and so limited by his own revealed will, that he may not be worshipped according to the imagination and devices of men, nor the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representations, or any other way not prescribed in the Holy Scriptures.
( Jeremiah 10:7; Mark 12:33; Deuteronomy 12:32; Exodus 20:4-6 )

2._____ Religious worship is to be given to God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and to him alone; not to angels, saints, or any other creatures; and since the fall, not without a mediator, nor in the mediation of any other but Christ alone.
( Matthew 4:9, 10; John 6:23; Matthew 28:19; Romans 1:25; Colossians 2:18; Revelation 19:10; John 14:6; 1 Timothy 2:5 )

3._____ Prayer, with thanksgiving, being one part of natural worship, is by God required of all men. But that it may be accepted, it is to be made in the name of the Son, by the help of the Spirit, according to his will; with understanding, reverence, humility, fervency, faith, love, and perseverance; and when with others, in a known tongue.
( Psalms 95:1-7; Psalms 65:2; John 14:13, 14; Romans 8:26; 1 John 5:14; 1 Corinthians 14:16, 17 )

4._____ Prayer is to be made for things lawful, and for all sorts of men living, or that shall live hereafter; but not for the dead, nor for those of whom it may be known that they have sinned the sin unto death.
( 1 Timothy 2:1, 2; 2 Samuel 7:29; 2 Samuel 12:21-23; 1 John 5:16 )

5._____ The reading of the Scriptures, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing with grace in our hearts to the Lord; as also the administration of baptism, and the Lord's supper, are all parts of religious worship of God, to be performed in obedience to him, with understanding, faith, reverence, and godly fear; moreover, solemn humiliation, with fastings, and thanksgivings, upon special occasions, ought to be used in an holy and religious manner.
( 1 Timothy 4:13; 2 Timothy 4:2; Luke 8:18; Colossians 3:16; Ephesians 5:19; Matthew 28:19, 20; 1 Corinthians 11:26; Esther 4:16; Joel 2:12; Exodus 15:1-19, Psalms 107 )

6._____ Neither prayer nor any other part of religious worship, is now under the gospel, tied unto, or made more acceptable by any place in which it is performed, or towards which it is directed; but God is to be worshipped everywhere in spirit and in truth; as in private families daily, and in secret each one by himself; so more solemnly in the public assemblies, which are not carelessly nor wilfully to be neglected or forsaken, when God by his word or providence calleth thereunto.
( John 4:21; Malachi 1:11; 1 Timothy 2:8; Acts 10:2; Matthew 6:11; Psalms 55:17; Matthew 6:6; Hebrews 10:25; Acts 2:42 )

7._____ As it is the law of nature, that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, be set apart for the worship of God, so by his Word, in a positive moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men, in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven for a sabbath to be kept holy unto him, which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ was changed into the first day of the week, which is called the Lord's day: and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished.
( Exodus 20:8; 1 Corinthians 16:1, 2; Acts 20:7; Revelation 1:10 )

8._____ The sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering their common affairs aforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all day, from their own works, words and thoughts, about their worldly employment and recreations, but are also taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of his worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.
( Isaiah 58:13; Nehemiah 13:15-22; Matthew 12:1-13 )

 

It seems very clear that it means for the purpose of worship.

However, I'm personally very uncomfortable with seeing representations of divinity in any form. It seems wrong. It is especially disturbing when people do "Passion plays" and have people acting out the cross, and I couldn't understand why people wanted to go see "The Passion." I went and talked to people at the theater with the ministry group after they saw it, passing out info and such, and saw their reactions. Why did they have to see it for that?
It really bothered me.
If that was my child, would I want someone making a movie out of it and having that terrible moment relived over and over? No way. It would be more than enough that it happened and it that wasn't enough for people, if they really had to act it out to feel anything about it, then what's that say about them as people?

No, some things are just too personal and too holy to put down on paper, to try to copy, to try to make an image of, to try to act out. Gotta leave that one alone.

 

DHK

There were many sabbaths spoken of.You start with the mosaic law...the sabbath was before that.

This is dispensational error.
The one day in seven rest was first a creation ordinance...God Himself "rested".....the ten commandments are throughout time.

The church has answered this way...yes...all ten.

You are not to take away from the word of God DHK. It is given to us and stands pointing to the future rest....

8 for if Joshua had given them rest, He would not concerning another day have spoken after these things;

9 there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God,

10 for he who did enter into his rest, he also rested from his works, as God from His own.

11 May we be diligent, then, to enter into that rest, that no one in the same example of the unbelief may fall,

You cannot get around this verse DHK...as well as this one...after the cross;
Matthew 28

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

28 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

It is God who defines when and how we are to worship Him.He has...6 days to labor...one day of rest.....it is a holy rest
8._____ The sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering their common affairs aforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all day, from their own works, words and thoughts, about their worldly employment and recreations, but are also taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of his worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.
( Isaiah 58:13; Nehemiah 13:15-22; Matthew 12:1-13 )

I prefer this explanation;FROM A Baptist Catechism with Commentary...by WR.DOWNING...pg 89-90

Wrong again DHK

16 And concerning the collection that [is] for the saints, as I directed to the assemblies of Galatia, so also ye -- do ye;

2 on every first [day] of the week, let each one of you lay by him, treasuring up whatever he may have prospered, that when I may come then collections may not be made;

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying,

11 `I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last

7 And on the first of the week, the disciples having been gathered together to break bread, Paul was discoursing to them, about to depart on the morrow, he was also continuing the discourse till midnight,

 

BU

In a sense, I agree with Sister Gina. While not necessarily condemning those who did see The Passion of the Christ, what bothered me was the person who was the prime promoter of the film--Mel Gibson.

Admittedly, Mr. Gibson has appeared in some movies that I found to be, shall we say, "interesting" [Braveheart, The Patriot], BUT when it comes to the subject of The Only Begotten Son, I tend to draw the line.

Why?

Because of the immoral personal character Mr. Gibson has openly exhibited.

I'm fully aware that all people have personal character flaws....with yours truly at the top the list. OTOH, I'm not planning to promote a film about Jesus Christ either.

Others may see things differently, and I respect your right to do so.

There's no need for any out there in BB Land to :tonofbricks:at me.

This is merely my personal view and nothing more.