The Second Coming Of Our Lord Jesus Christ

OLD REGULAR

Maybe if I explained "WHY" there is a "tribulation period", and "WHY" Israel suffers the trib and not the church, it might be easier to understand.

Here's what God said about Israel:

Ps 89:3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,

Ps 89:29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

God promised to use a "ROD" to inflict "STRIPES" in their "OWN FLESH".

What is that "ROD" God uses???

Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, (Antichrist) the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.

God's "ROD" (AC) turns into a "Serpent" same as Moses/Arrons' rod turned into a "serpent".

STAFF is "leadership", giving Satan "Dominion over all kindren, tongues, nations" is "God's "INDIGNATION".

Satan inflicts "STRIPES" in the "BODIES" of those who have the testimony of Christ by having them "KILLED".


The trib isn't just a time of "WRATH", but of "CHASTISEMENT" and "RECONCILATION" between GOD/Israel.

Jesus suffered the STRIPE for the church in "HIS FLESH", (Isa 53) we already have "PEACE" with God, no chastisement due.

God does to Israel exactly what Paul wrote for the church to do.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I'll not post it at this time but the "FEAST DAYS" also explain this.

 

Da 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel's "Book" was to be closed and sealed until the "TIME OF THE END".

All the generations "BETWEEN" were to be "ignorant" of Daniel's book, WHY???

The answer is, it's prophecies didn't apply to them, there was "NO NEED" for them to know.

The last question the disciples ask Jesus, he refuse to answer, telling them it wasn't for them to know, WHY, because it didn't pertain to their generation.

Ac 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons,

Actually, Jesus was keeping the seal on Daniel's book when he answered.

So why has the "rapture" become the main topic in the last few years, we're at the "time of the end" and the "seals" are being taken off of Daniel's book,

"NEW" revealtions, kept hidden since Daniel, are being revealed, and the "WISE" will understand Daniel's book.

Da 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

The very fact we understand Daniel's book is "EVIDENCE" we are at the "time of the end".

 

Amen, Brother Me4him -- Preach it!

That Daniel is an open book now that the
Last Day of the Last Days is right upon us.

 

Rev 11:3-6 (KJV1611 Edition):
And I will giue power vnto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesie a thousand two hundred and threescore dayes clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two oliue trees, and the two candlestickes, standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and deuoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, hee must in this maner be killed.
6 These haue power to shut heauen, that it raine not in the dayes of their prophesie: and haue power ouer waters to turne them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

These haue power to shut heauen, that it raine not in the dayes of their prophesie: ..."
Just like Elijah - representing the PROPHETS

" ... and haue power ouer waters to turne them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues," as often as they will. "
Just like Moses - representing the LAW

These guys representing the Law and the Prophets
will show up shortly after the Pretribulaion
Rapture.

The "law and prophet" will return!

 

OldRegular: "With the birth and death of Jesus Christ the role of Israel
in God's purpose of Salvation was complete. The relationship of the Israelites
with God is the same as any other unbeliever. Those who are saved are
saved one at a time just like the Gentiles. "

True, right now.
Once the pretribulation Rapture takes the Gentile Church out of this world
(and those Messanic Jews with them) - God's purpose for the salvation of
the Gentiles will be DONE. The Jesus turns toward saving a maximum number
of Jews. These Jews will be saved one by one as they see that Jesus is their
True Messiah (and not a false Messiah like the Anti-messiah).

 

Paul, refering to the JEW,

Ro 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Do you know of "ANYONE" who can be an enemy of the gospel and still have a "PROMISE" of being "SAVED"???

God's promise to ABRAHAM will stand.

Jew interpret scripture "Literally", the Church "Spiritually", Israel was expecting a the "literal Kingdom" (MK) not the "Spiritual Kingdom" (Church) that's why Israel rejects Jesus as Messiah.

But regardless of which way scripture is interpreted, Literally or Spiritually, it's TRUE

There's is a "Spiritual Kingdom" (Church) and a "literal Kingdom" (MK) but only "ONE BIBLE", don't you think it "COVERS BOTH KINGDOMS"???

 

Me4Him,

You believe the kingdom shall be literal for millennial.

Pharisees asked Christ, "When the kingdom of God should come?"- Luke 17:20. Then, Chist answered them, "The kingdom of God cometh not with OBSERVATION. Neither shall they say, 'Lo here! lo there!' for, behold the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU." - Luke 17:20-21.

Jews are still expecting Messiah shall come and to set the kingdom on earth. They still do not understand the meaning of the kingdom of God, also, they still blind that, Jesus is their true Messiah. Christ told them, this is not with observation, but it is within them, speak of spiritually.

Christ already bring the kingdom of God/heaven to earth through his power 2000 years ago.

Christ never saying the kingdom on earth shall be last for only a thousand years. There is not a single verse find anywhere in Bible saying that the kingdom shall be last only a thousand years. Bible says, the kingdom is an everlasting kingdom.

The kingdom of God/heaven does not limited for Jews only, also, it brings for the world, of salvation.

The kingdom of God/heaven is a good news for everyone need to know about Jesus Christ, it is not talk about Israel as nation shall be possess at Christ's coming, it is talk about good news of Jesus Christ and salvation.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

I used to say that Dan 9 was the key to premillenialism. Now I say that Gen 15 is the key. Wish I had more time...

DeafPost,

The theocratic kingdom for Israel is for 1000 years and then moves into eternity with a New Heaven and New Earth. The post/amil position denies the literalness of a lot more than the 1000 years!

 

There is a "kingdom Of God", (Spiritual kingdom, at the present, Church) and a "KINGDOM OF HEAVEN", (Literal location).

The "Kingdom of God" is mentioned throughout the NT, however the Kingdom of HEAVEN is only mentioned in "Matthew".

The "physical Kingdom" promised to the Jews in the OT is what we called the "Mill reign", or "Seventh day". (day=1000 years)

God told Adam, IN THE DAY you sin, you die.

Adam lived 930 years but still die IN THE DAY he sinned,for a day with God is a "Thousand years".

NO PERSON has lived a thousand years since sin enter the world, ALL have died IN THE DAY they sinned.

But the "Spiritual" is always manifested here in the "physical realm" (if you have eyes to see it)

SO, The thousand years we LIVE AND REIGN with Jesus and DO NOT DIE will prove Jesus removed ALL OUR SINS.

 

You're stating "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY", which is "TOTALLY WRONG".

God's promise to Abraham was both "SPIRITUAL" and "LITERAL", Abraham's "NATURAL SEED" as well as "SPIRITUAL SEED". (FAITH)

Ge 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Ge 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

The Jews can no more become "UN-CHOSEN" than you can become "UN-SAVED", God's choice is "ETERNAL", there's no "changing his mind".

God intended for the Jews to be a "light to the gentiles", but their rejection of Jesus stopped it.

Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

7 Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee. (he came unto his own)

8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

The Jews being "LAST" for the Gospel, will be restored to "FIRST" place during the MK.

Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Ro 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Ro 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Entering the trib is their "Chastisement" for rejecting Jesus, and the reason the church doesn't.

It should be noted that God only Chastises "HIS OWN".

 

OldRegular:
"Your second statement:
quote:
------------------------
You expect way too much.
------------------------
OldRegular: "I expect nothing from dispensationalists except a repetition of false doctrine"

Your ad homineim argument is noted.
Your vermicular converstation is noted.
I am NOT a dispensationalist as you yourself have defined
the term 'dispensationalist'.
I am however a dispensatinalist as God defines 'dispensationalist'
in the Holy Bible. I am a good steward of what God has intrusted to
me. What God has intrusted to me is the hope of the Pretribulation
Rapture/resurrection and the ability to explain it beyond what John
Darby could explain.

John Darby did not know that one day mankind would
invent nuclear weapons and by 1964 would be capable of destroying all
life on Earth, surely all Human life. Ed knoted this event in 1964.

When i was first saved in April 1952 at a Pretrib Revival Meeting,
i believed that God would whip the bad guys in the Tribulation Period.
Actually after 1964 I could see that God will interfer in love to save
Mankind from destroying themselves.

John Darby saw 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 as assuming that a pretribulation
rapture/resurrection had taken place. I have been given grace from
God to see that the "falling away" in 2 Thess 2:3
is the PRETRIBULATION RAPTURE itself". Some are want to say,
How can the 'caught up'in the sky of 1 Thess 4 be the 'falling away'
from Earth in 2 Thess 2? If you have a digital camera to
record the event, you just hold your camera 180-degrees about.
If your camera is pointed up to the sky, then folks are caught up;
if your camera is pointed down to the earth, then folks are
falling away from this old earth right into the hands of Jesus!

Say, can i ask a genric question here?
If everything was finished when Jesus died on the Cross, why
did he have to arise from the grave? What was finished (completed) on
the Cross was the hard part of the chore of Jesus: die for our sins.
The rest of the chore prior to Resurrection was easy: whipping Satan.

If everything is finished when Jesus comes again, and the world is
destroyed - how is that different from what Mankind can do: destroy
all mankind?

OldRegular:
//------------------------------
Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
1. You have yet to show the Historical
and Biblical Baptist Doctrine
stand you say Baptists hold.
---------------------------------

//The above statement is totally false. Why do you deliberately make
such false statements? I posted excerpts from historical Baptist Confessions
in the OP. These Confessions and the Abstract of Principles clearly
teach a general resurrection and judgment just as Jesus Christ
does on John 5:28, 29: //

The above statement is totally true. I keep telling the truth.
These Confessions and the Abstract of Principles are not clearly
teaching a general resurrection and judgement no more than the
Old Testament (OT) Messanic prophecies preach one and only one coming
(arrival, appearance, advent) of our Blessed Lord and Savior: Messiah
Yeshua (AKA: Iesus, and Jesus). The Jews still read only the OT
and construe that the Messian will come one and only one time.

Yes, you can read into John 5:28 and John 5:29 that there is one
and only one resurrection. How come I have received from God's word
and denoted the differences between FIVE judgements?
(and notice how neat an evangelistic message it makes )

John 5:28-29 quoted by OldRegular:

28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are
in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the
resurrection of life; and they that have done evil,
unto the resurrection of damnation.

This does NOT say:

28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are
in the graves shall hear his voice,
29.and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the
resurrection of life; AND IN THE SAME EXACT
60-minute HOUR (HOUR as defined by SCIENCE): they that have done evil,
unto the resurrection of damnation.

Why do you let science define your term?

The correct understanding of HOUR here is "the right time" - Jesus
will raise the good (via Jesus) unto life
at the right time and will raise the evil unto damnation at the
right time. Nobody said those two times would be in the same science
defined '60-minute-hour'.


OldRegular: " ... you have been too busy posting TEE HEE to read and understand."

You mock the history of Internet communication.
How can you expect to be taken seriously when you try to define
the history of Baptists?
Back before smilies , back before semi-colon end-parens [ ] smiley
faces, there was 'TeeHee' to indicate one is not taking oneself too
seriously.

----------------------------------
Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
IDEALISM - N.T. prophecy is spiritual truths too deep for
--- OldRegular and Ed to understand
-----------------------------------

OldRegular: //Ed, The spiritual truths in the New Testament are obviously too
deep for you to understand but don't judge others by yourself.//

I take it then you are an Idealist?
Just in case you are - I restate:

IDEALISM - N.T. prophecy is spiritual truth

After i defined a bunch of nutral eschatological viewpoint definitions,
Brother OldRegular says:

"Am I supposed to stand and applaud now.
By the way it is millennial not millinnial."

I've been asked by various and sundry Moderators not to correct
the spelling of fellow posters. Maybe the rules are different for you?

It wouldn't hurt you case if you did stand and applaud. I was
giving nutral definions to show the flavor of various eschatological
stances. But you choose to mock me. I just hope i didn't catch you
with a couple of terms you are not familiar with

OldRegular: "In truth, though the eschatology of the dispensationalist
is completely false,
it is their doctrine of the failure of Jesus Christ in His mission tha
is most repugnant."

I don't dare name your eschatology, i'll let you do it.
Again, I deny I am an dispensationalist as you define the term.

My Futurist, pre-millinnial Second Coming, pretribulation rapture
eschatology does not teach the failure of Jesus Chirst
in his mission. This is an anti-pretribualtion rapture lie.
IN fact, those who say the rapture is the same 48-hour-day as the
Second Advent appearance of Jesus to destroy the Antichrist -
they are the ones who 'think Jesus is a missiona failure'. For they
consign the Jews to the dustbin of History forgotten by God.
Come on, the reason we gentiles can be saved is that the Jews
of the Time of Jesus, in most, rejected Jesus as the Messiah.
Why did the promises to Abraham renewed to King David about the
special Israeli people - why didn't God not keep those promises?
God has a plan to win a maximum number of national Jews. If the
Lord comes today, there will be 18 Million Jewish people. Most of them
will turn to Jesus when they see the Anti-messiah commit the abomination
of desolation (AOD) - then many will see Jesus is their true Messiah
and be saved for all eternity. No, the only way that Jesus can complete
His mission is THE PLAN: pretribulation rapture/resurrection followed
by the Tribualtion (see Revelation 4-19, the parts that take place
on earth) Period, followed by the Triumphant return of Jesus to
destroy the Antichrist and set up a physical 1,000-year-long over
a physical Israel in a physcial world ruling a physical kingdom from
a physical Throne of David in a physical world.

Me4Him: //"Charts makes explaining much easier, less typing, and I'm "lazy".//

Amen, Brother Me4Him -- Preach on! Charts make the scriptures come
alive. However, Ii note that the charts don't do much for convincing
the heard of heart

DeafPosttrib: "Early Church does not teaching on that in the first of 18 Centuries
till Darby developed it, and they started to adopt his new treachings.
They departed from the truth of Bible, and Early Church's
statement of faith on second coming, and they follow new
teaching of pretribulationism."

DeafPosttrib blames pretribulationism on Darby, OldRegular blames
dispensationalism. I wish you guys could agree with each other on
how to attack Bro. Me4Him

Which reminds me of another strength of pretribulation raptureism:
you can get to posttrib from pre-mill or a-mill.
YOu can only get to pretrib from pre-mill. Two ways to make a mistake,
one way to get it right!

from Articles 19 of the Abstract of Principle
of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (1858):

"At the last day, the bodies of all the dead,
both just and unjust, will be raised."

Science defines a day as a 24-hour period measured one place
on the earth or a 48-hour period measured all places on the earth.
If one takes a Science definition of 'day' here, one has that all
these resurrections take place AT THE SAME TIME. But other
scriptures DO NOT teach this. There are more than one defintion
of 'day'. The general prophetic meaning of day is 'the right time'.

I see no reason that these Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
should have a better revelation than the authors of the Bible.
The last days started about 33AD, day of Pentacost, as shown in
Acts 2:17. That is 2005-33 years ago = 1,972 years ago. Humm,
last days = 1,972 years and counting - why cannot the 'last day',
the last right time be more than 48-hours?

Looking around for a candidate time period, we might notice
the 42 months; 1260 days; time, times, and half a time; half
of 7 (years). All these point to 3½-years as some say, and
2 times 3½-years = seven years as others say. This choice seems
to work better than any other definiction of a 'day' as in
'last day' 'Day of the Lord', in most any prophetic day which has
not happened yet.

The Midland Association Confession [1655]

Article 16 [page 200, Lumpkin].

“That at the time appointed of the Lord, the dead bodies of all men,
just and unjust shall rise out of their graves, that all may
receive according to what they have done in their bodies,
be it good or evil.”

Yep, good summary. But the phrase is 'time appointed of the Lord'
not 'time appointed of the Lord and measured by Science'.

Sorry, this statement can be 'amened' by every pretribulation
rapture believer.

The Somerset Confession [1656]

Article XL [page 214].

“That there is a day appointed, when the Lord shall raise the
unjust as well as the righteous, and judge them all in righteousness,
but every man in his own order, taking vengeance on them
that know not God, and obey not the gospel of our Lord
Jesus Christ, whose punishment will be everlasting destruction
from the presence of the Lord.”

I really don't think 'day appointed' means a day as measured by
20th century science at 48-each-60-minute-hours. Well it could, but
i doubt if those folk in 1656 would have agreed to it

The Standard Confession [1660]

Article XX [page 231].

“That there shall be [through Christ who was dead but is alive again
from the dead] a Resurrection of all men from the graves of the earth,
both the just and the unjust, that is, the fleshly bodies of men,
sown into the graves of the earth, corruptible, dishonourable,
weak, natural, [which so considered cannot inherit the Kingdom
of God] shall be raised again, incorruptible, in glory
in power, spiritual, and so considered, the bodies of
the Saints [united again to their spirits] which here suffer
for Christ, shall inherit the Kingdom, reigning together with Christ.”

This isn't even specific in how much time it takes
or how many resurrections there are. Take your pick 1 to 10 resurrections
and one minute to 7,000 years. Well, those folks were good at pleasing
all the various eschatologies at once.

Marcia: "OR, ...
I read through your OP. Can you point out specifically which
of the above statements dispensationalism disagrees with? Thanks"

He probably won't respond or won't get it right. I take liberty
to speak for various and sundry branches of dispensationalism:
Dispensatinalists do NOT disagree with the Opening Post (OP) statements.
These statements are very generic and agree with most commonly held
eschatologies. Only esoteric eschatologies can disagree with these
statements. The statement in the SBC1963 and SBC 2000 statements
do NOT disagree with this and make room for a-mills and pre-mills alike.
The eschatological stands in such combined statements are made to
unite people, not to figure out where they stand seperate eschatologically.

OldRegular Definition of Dispensationalism1: "Dispensationalism teaches
that there will be multiple
resurrections and judgments and, therefore, is in disagreement
with all the above statements.."

OldRegular Definition of Dispensationalism2: "As reported
by Lloyd-Jones [page 138]
Irving was apparently the originator of ‘the secret rapture’
which is the bedrock of dispensational eschatology."

Seems not only do you have to go out on a limb for this 'definition'
you have go out on a twig, out on a leaf, out to the end of the leaf.
I don't believe in a 'secret rapture', whatever it is.
And i still can't find in this topic where anybody defines a 'secret
rapture'. And I tire greatly of those who bring this long dead
strawman, 'secret rapture', to our meetings.

These two defintions of 'dispensatinalism' do not agree.
I agree with the first in that their will be multiple resurrections
of persons both multiple general resurrections of the of
the just in Christ (pretrib) and a resurrection of the just
seperate from the resurrection of the unjust (premillinnial).

OldRegular: "The question is not whethe
there is a distinction between the nation Israel and the Church,
there obviously is. The concern is the relationship between true
or spiritual Israel, the believing remnant [Isaiah 10:20-23], and the Church."

According to my pretriblation rapture/ressurection, pre-millinnial
Second Coming in power, futuristic: the important thing is between
the nation Israel and the Church.

If fact, there are two Israels and two Churches and two elects.
One Israel is physical Israel which will be saved in the coming Tribulation Period.
One Israel is spiritual Israel which will be raptured/resurrected
out of this world before the coming Tribulation period.

The physical Israel is the church that was protected in the
wilderness outside Sinai and will be protected in the Tribulation
Period in the wilderness by the very hand of God from the dark forces
of the Antichrist.

The spiritual Israel is the gentile church (plus some Messanic Jews)
who proteced in the Tribulation Period by GOING HOME to be with Jesus
in the pretribulation rapture/resurrection.

Obviously the two elects are the Two Churches.

OldRegular: //3. Dispensationalism denies that the church is included in prophecy.
Rather, the claim is made that Jesus Christ came to establish
the Messianic kingdom for the Jews, that they rejected Him, and that
He established the Church instead. ... //

I object to the word 'instead'. God's PLAN 'A' was to save the whole
world through Jesus, the Christ - well, as many as would have that salvation.
God knew ahead of time that Israel would not, in large, accept Jesus then
as Savior. So God caused the no-people (AKA: guoim /or goy/ or automen)
to be saved for 2,000 years now to shame the Jews. But God's first love
was Israel, not the Church (the Church was second in time sequence).
God will get back to Yisreal soon.

My eschatology has the gentile church (the statement doesn't seem to
realise God has two churches and three kingdoms) IS included in
both OT and NT prophecy.

Unfortunately i've not got time to go over all the errors in OldRegular's
understanding of what self proclaimed dispensationalists have said.
Not that the self appointed dispnesationalist were even right all the time
anyway. Sorry, but the whole history of Christianity is one of growth
and backsliding. We grow in our understanding of God, but many backslide.

I'll try to study these bumbling musings of OldRegular about the
'evil' dispensatinalists. But it will take months to undo the damage
he has done in confusing folks.

BTW, I've been in places where i had to say, "I'm not a Christian like
you beleive". (I am and will forever remain a Messanic Jesus Phreaque,
but i'm not buing into nor falling for every body's mis-definition of
'Christian'. I'm especially shy of being a 'Christian' before a Jew.
To a Jew who read how half the Jews in the world died under the heavy
hand of the alleged Christian 'Adolf Hitler" - even more those who managed
to survive - the word 'Christian' is more offensive than the
'N'-word to the African-american or the 'L'-word is to fundamentalists.
I try not to use 'Christ' and "Christian' if i can in case a Jew
is around. Offending Jews is NOT CONDUSIVE TO SPIRITUAL HEALTH.

 

Old Regular

You will find "THREE" of almost "EVERYTHING" in the scriptures, even "THREE RESURRECTION".

1. When Jesus died on the cross, OT saints were "Resurrected" and appeared in Jerusalem.

Mt 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

2. The "First resurrection", when Jesus returns with all his saints.

1Th 3:13 at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Re 20:5 This is the first resurrection.


3. Resurrection of the unsaved dead. (GWT)

Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:

If you'll notice, in each of these "resurrection", they are "BACK ON EARTH, ALIVE", Bodies come out of the ground in the rapture, BUT, they go directly to heaven, not back on earth, therefore the rapture isn't classified as a "resurrection" in the scriptures.

But the point is you have to understand the "SEQUENCE OF EVENTS" before you can understand the scriptures.

To most people the bible is a "puzzle of verses" they can't "assemble" into a "clear picture", understanding the sequence of events puts all the puzzle pieces in their place, making the picture clear.

I draw "Charts" to explain the scriptures, they're easy to see/understand and helps others to "See" the "picture".

All the charts I've posted are mine.

a side note here,

IF "ALL", (I believe they were) the OT saints were resurrected with Jesus then "Joseph's tomb" is "EMPTY", along with all the other graves/tombs of OT saint.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, (OT saints held "captive" by sin)

 

Brother 'of South Carolina':
You need to be able to tell a person's
name from his titles; you need to discern
the Blessed Name of Jesus and His titles.

Here are some of the names of Our Blessed
Lord and Savior:
middle english - Iesus
modern english - Jesus
Angelised Hebrew - Yeshua

Here are some of His titles:
Christ - Greek for 'the annointed one of God
Messiah - Hebrew for 'the anointed one of God.
Lord - THE BOSS
Master - THE BOSS
Savior - one who saved my soul
Blessed - the one most blessed of God

Note that here on this board the brother's
name is OldRegular' not 'of South Carolina' --
the difference between the name and the title.

Act 4:1012 (KJV1611 Edition):
Be it knowen vnto you all, and to all the
people of Israel, that by the Name of
Iesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified,
whome God raised from the dead, euen by him,
doeth this man stand here before you, whole.
11 This is the stone which was set
at nought of you builders, which is
become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there saluation in any
other: for there is none other name vnder
heauen giuen among men whereby we
must be saued.

So, how many of you were saved in the
name of 'of Nazareth'?

Here is 'name' in 4:12

G3686
ὄνομα
onoma
on'-om-ah
From a presumed derivative of the base
of G1097 (compare G3685); a “name”
(literally or figuratively), (authority,
character): - called, (+ sur-) name (-d).

Here is 'Jesus' in 4:10:

G2424
Ἰησοῦς
Iēsous
ee-ay-sooce'
Of Hebrew origin [H3091]; Jesus (that is,
Jehoshua), the name of our Lord
and two (three) other Israelites: - Jesus.

Here is 'Christ' in 4:10:

G5547
Χριστός
Christos
khris-tos'
From G5548; anointed, that is,
the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus:
- Christ.


Yep, it is not the word (or title)
'Christ' by which we
must be saved, is the name 'Iesus' (in
the KJV1611) by which
we must be saved.

 

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said vnto Abram, Get thee out of thy countrey,
and from thy kinred, and from thy fathers house, vnto a land that I will shew thee.
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation,
and I wil blesse thee, and make thy name great;
and thou shalt bee a blessing.
Gen 12:3 And I will blesse them that blesse thee,
and curse him, that curseth thee:
and in thee shal all families of the earth be blessed.

I sure wouldn't curse a national Jewish Israeli, but will bless him.

Here is the blessing Jesus puts on those who were kind to the
national Jewish Israeli:

Mat 25:40 (KJV1611 Edition):
And the King shall answere, and say vnto them,
Uerely I say vnto you, in as much as ye haue done it vnto
one of the least of these my brethren, ye haue done it vnto me.

 

We will discuss these two seperate time,
different purpose judgements later:

4. Throne of His Glory judgement
(AKA: Sheep and Goats judgement, Matthew 25:31-46)
WHO: the nations: the living survivers of the Great Tribulation
(these people are NOT saved, they are human in human bodies)
WHEN: after the Great Tribulation, before the Millennial Age
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God fulfills His promises: God will bless those
who bless Yisrael and curse those who curse Yisrael
HOW: Judged by their treatment of Yisrael
WHAT: the cursed to Hell; the blessed to the Millennial Age

5. Great White Throne judgement
WHO: the wicked dead
WHEN: after the Millennial Age; before endless ages
WHERE: between Hell and the Lake of Fire
WHY: The Lord God is not mocked
HOW: The wrath of God by Messiah Jesus
WHAT: the Messiah rejectors consigned to endless punishment