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Featured The Wall That Jesus Christ Broke Down; Rebuilt?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Jul 28, 2014.

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  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Please read what I said:

    And I can prove that is true. You cannot prove that God deals with people through dispensations because He does not.

    1. The Covenant with Adam: Genesis 2:15-17

    2. The Initiation of the Covenant of Grace in time: Genesis 3;15

    3. The Covenant with Noah and his descendants [mankind]: Genesis9:9ff

    4. The Covenant with Abraham and his seed: Genesis 12:1 ff

    5. The Covenant with Moses/Israel: Exodus 19:5 ff

    6. The 2nd Covenant with Israel: Deuteronomy 29:1ff

    7, The Covenant with David: 2 Samuel 7:4ff

    8. The New Covenant: Jeremiah 31:31-34

    9. The New Covenant fulfilled: John 19:30; Hebrews 7:22ff; Hebrews 8:7-13; Hebrews 9:11, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20; Hebrews 12:24; Hebrews 13:20.

    Now please give me Chapter and Verse where the different dispensations are identified.
     
    #61 OldRegular, Jul 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2014
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    You are already acquainted with the dispensations. No one needs to repeat them to you. The only NT covenant that one needs to be concerned with is the one that happens at salvation. Christ, by the power of His Holy Spirit, comes and indwells the believer, when he comes to Christ by faith alone and accepts His gift of salvation.

    Otherwise:
    Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
    --The covenants are given to Israel. They do not apply to us.
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You totally do not grasp the reality of the NT, that the gentiles are GRAFTED INTO the same covenant promises... it says it right here....

    12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

    13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

    DHK ...your errors are overflowing
     
  4. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    We get the same promises that God gave to Abraham concerning his son Isaac...which lineage Christ came from, from Judah. You can find this in Galatians 3, and Hebrews 7 and 11.


    Then, we as gentiles, are grafted into the natural Olive Branch, which is Jesus Christ. This is found in Romans 11:24.
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The system he follows forces him to blindly make statements that cannot make sense. :wavey:That is totally an indefensible position.:wavey:
     
  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    It is not my error. You have really twisted the meaning of this scripture.

    Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    --The "you" are the Ephesian believers. That is who he is writing to. The church at Ephesus was a church composed of both Gentile and Jewish believers. He is addressing the local church.

    To them he writes:
    Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
    --In the past, some of you were Gentiles, and some of you were Jews.

    Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
    --At that time, both of you (Jew and Gentile) were without Christ. Even a Jew without Christ is a stranger from the commonwealth of Israel.

    Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
    14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
    --Both Jew and Gentile were in the same boat without Christ--separated from God.
    Now that they are both in Christ, God has broken down the wall between them so that both Jew and Gentile are now one in Christ. There is to be no division in the church. We are all one in Christ.
    He is writing to the believers in Ephesus.

    Continue to read:
    Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
    16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
    --Both unto God into one body.
    That is, both groups (Jewish believers and Gentile believers) are reconciled to God in one body--the local church by the cross.
     
  7. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    :confused: He has twisted scripture? :confused: You appear to be playing the game Twister whilst eating pretzels the way you twist them. You do much violence to them.

    Correct. Now, how does this strengthen your position? The whole bible is concentrated on focusing upon His sheep. That's what it is all about. The marriage between the Lamb and His bride. This verse adds nothing to what you're posting, imo.....


    Correct. The same could be said for the other churches at Corinth, Ephesus, Rome, et al. Again, the bible is addressed to us, and our relationship with our Bridegroom, Jesus Christ.


    Again, this doesn't help your case one iota. Both sides of this debate agree with this.

    Amen Brudder.

    Amen Brudder again...

    There's more to this than the local church, but that's another subject altogether. Christ came to fulfill the Law. He came under the Law, to redeem them that were under the Law. However, the Law is also written upon the hearts of the believer...Jer. 31, Hebrews 8 and 10. The Jews at the time of Christ, had profaned the altar with polluted bread...Malachi 1. They had turned the office of High Priest into a political office where they held it for so long, and then someone else took over. Christ came to correct this. They even sold/traded in the temple and Christ drove them out. These were the ones who fathers had been rescued from Egypt and Babylon. Yet in time, their fathers would also fall into idolatry. Not all of Israel is Israel, but the very small remnant is accounted as the seed of promise. This very small remnant constitutes the church, the body of Christ, the elect of God, the sheep, et al.
     
  8. beameup

    beameup Member

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    I see the "Dispensation of Grace" in Ephesians 3:1-6

    For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
    If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
    How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
    Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
    Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
    That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    And in Ephesians 2 we have "past" and "future" dispensations:
    That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. Eph 2:7

    (1)In other ages - time past
    (2)But now - presently
    (3)Ages to come - future
     
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Well said Icon! Scripture also tells us:

    Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.:godisgood:
     
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Best of all through Jesus Christ we are participants in the New Covenant. Dispensationalists will deny this truth but the Letter to the Hebrews tells us that dispensationalists are wrong as I showed in my post listing the Covenants and confirming Scripture. Furthermore Jesus Christ on the night before Rome and the Jews crucified Him said the following:

    Matthew 26:26-28, NASB
    26. And while they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”
    27. And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you;
    28. for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.


    Luke records verse 28 as follows:

    Luke 22:20, NASB
    And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.
     
  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    In my initial response to yeshua1 {Shown above} I listed the Covenants through which God dealt with man and challenged dispensationalists to present similar Scriptural justification for their seven dispensations. They can't because dispensational doctrine is strictly the invention of man, systemized by Darby and Scofield.
     
  12. AresMan

    AresMan Active Member
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    Uh oh. It looks like beameup has shifted from mid-Acts dispensationalism and imbibed Acts 28 dispensationalism.
     
  13. AresMan

    AresMan Active Member
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    2Co 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
    2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    What other Covenat are we under yet save for the new Covenant?

    was it the superior one that superceded all of the prior ones, or what?

    Hebrews made us to see that we are now under the far superior Covenant of grace, not the law, correct?
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Spiritual bl essings granted to those who have been saved under thenew Covenant, yes, but not all of the physical promises were fulfilled to national isreal, as the BIG one yet to come is their reign under their messiah!
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Isn't that Bullinger/Hyper dispy views?

    That the only rel Epistles to us would be those of paul period?
     
  17. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Uh ... they're the same thing.
     
    #77 thisnumbersdisconnected, Jul 31, 2014
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  18. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    God has always dealt with man because of His Grace. Following is a slightly reworded paragraph I have posted elsewhere regarding the Covenant of Grace. However, since you don't want to accept that there is a Covenant of Grace within the Triune Godhead regarding the Salvation of the elect I have reworded it somewhat, just for you!

     
  19. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
    16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
    --You have agreed with me up to verse 15, that the former verses are speaking to the church at Ephesus. Is it not strange to you that suddenly Paul would go off on a tangent and suddenly talk to a different audience other than the church at Ephesus?
    He does not! This is a letter directed to the church at Ephesus, the same people whom he calls together in Acts 20:17,
    Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
    --Here he gives them further encouragement and instruction.
    He is not talking to anyone but them.

    Some of the truths you have said may be found in other Scripture, but they are not expressed here to the local church at Ephesus. Here he does not refer to Jeremiah 31 or to Malachi, etc. You are reading that into this passage. He is speaking of the unity of the believers of this church, and that is all. Don't twist the context and eisigete some of your doctrine from this passage. You can't do that. You are not rightly dividing the word of truth.
     
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    As far as I am concerned until the dispensationalist explains how "for ever" gets reduced to 1000 years they are just blowing smoke!
     
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