Featured Brethren and Sisterin

If we look at the NASB and its use of G80 to refer to members of the family of God in a non-specific way, we can consider updating the translation using sibling(s) to better present the actual message of God.

Here is a list of prospective candidates for modification:

Matthew 18:15, 21, 35; 23:8; 25:40
Mark 13:12
Luke 18:29, 22:32;

Romans 12:10; 14:10, 13, 15, 21;
1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:6; 8:11, 13;
1 Thess. 4:6
2 Thess 3:6, 3:15;
Philemon 1:16

James 1:9, 4:11;

1 John 2:9, 10, 11; 3:10, 15, 17; 4:21; 5:16; ​

 

Another very common usage of G80 refers fellow Jews or fellow countrymen. So if we use "brethren" for fellow Jews or fellow countrymen, then siblings would be used exclusively when fellow believers regardless of sex or ethnicity are in view.

Now when the reference is to fellow Jews who are believers, I think we should stick with brethren, leaving the ambiguity to be resolved by the reader. Thus Acts 9:30 would remain "brethren." (See also Acts 11:1)

There are many, dozens at least, verses where brethren appears in the NASB referring to believers, too many to bother to list.

 

Greektim, you have posted that there are "relational connotations" expressed by "brothers and sisters" that are not present when "siblings" is used. And now you want me to address this "preference." I will leave you to ride your wheels within wheels contraption.

And as I have explained, the reason I believe siblings is better at presenting the actual message of God is that in Christ there is no difference, no male and female, nor Jew and Gentile.

 

Here is the deal, you simply object to my every post because you like to bust on me. The banality of your points is there for all to see.

When a poster says, "So you believe..." stand by for some unbiblical absurdity designed to derail actual discussion of the topic. The bible is clear, men have been given the role of spiritual leadership with the family and within our local assemblies. Completely off topic.

Here are the “too many to list” references:
Acts 6:3; 15:1, 2,3,23,32, 33, 36, 40; 16:2, 40; 17:10, 14; 18:18, 27; 21:7
Romans 1:13; 7:1, 4: 8:12, 29: 10:1: 11:25: 12:1; 15:14, 30: 16:14, 17;
1 Corinthians 1:10, 11, 26; 2:1; 3:1; 4:6; 6:5, 8; 11:33, 12:1: 14:6, 20, 26, 39; 15:1, 6, 31, 50. 58: 16:11, 12, 15, 20:
2 Corinthians 1:8, 8:1, 23,: 9:3, 5; 11:9, 26; 13:11
Galatians 1:2, 11; 2:4; 3:5; 4:12, 28, 31; 5:11, 13; 6:1, 18;
Ephesians 6:23;
Philippians 1:12, 14; 3:1, 13, 17; 4:1, 8, 21;
Colossians 1:2; 4:15
1 Thessalonians 1:4; 2:1, 9, 14, 17; 3:7; 4:1, 9, 10, 13; 5:1, 4, 12, 14, 25, 26, 27:
2 Thessalonians 1:3, 2:1, 13, 15; 3:1, 6, 13;
1 Timothy 4:6, 6:2;
2 Timothy 4:21
Hebrews and James would require more study to discern whether siblings or brethren is in view.

 

Then why not have it rendered "believers" then? It makes sense. The words "brethren" just doesn't work --and certainly not your super-silly "siblings" suggestion.

 

I see the poster continues to claim changing brethren and brother(s) to siblings when non-specific members of God's family are in view mysteriously undercuts the passages indicating the role of men in spiritual leadership. Twaddle, folks, just twaddle.

Returning to topic, the Greek word (G80) has within its range of meanings "a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection."
Another Greek word means believer, and that word does not directly indicate the relational bond of affection with the usage of G80.

Bottom line, the arguments against changing "brother(s)" or "brethren" to "sibling(s) when non-specific members of God's family are in view that have been posted are:

1) People are accustomed to using brother and brethren and are too provincial to accept sibling. They will react with "that is just silly."
2) Sibling(s) does not have the same "relational connotation" as "brother(s) or brethren" claiming the idea from the text is exclusively men. This view seems to reflect paternal bias, and not the inclusiveness of Christ.​

 

More from the poster who reverses his arguments with every post. Where is the male/female division that is found in Christ? The opposite is taught, there is no distinction between male and female in Christ!!

Imagine for a moment that James and John are "brothers and sisters!"

No, what is really being said is that where I have indicated "siblings" should be used, Greektim says use "brothers and sisters" instead.

Now imagine someone addressing a group of men, with the "brothers and sisters" translation. Twaddle times two.

 

You make no sense here. I advocate using 'brothers and sisters' --not 'brother(s)' and 'brethern' --so how provincial can I be? I say your suggestion of 'siblings' is super-silly for reasons that GT has given.

Your translational suggestions have a history of gross inadequacy (to be polite). Your suggestions have been 'rendered inactive'

 

You are being consistently super-silly. Who here has argued that two flesh and blood brothers should be called anything but brothers?!

You are solidifying your off-beat reputation on the BB. No one advocates your twaddle.

 

Lets see, the vulgarity of some posters on a Christian board is amazing.

1) Both Mr. Rippon and Greektim, think "brothers and sisters" is better than "siblings." Except when I refer to a verse, then they want brothers.

2) In the verses cited, "siblings" better communicates the actual message of God, where non-specific members of God's family are in view.

3) There is no distinction between men and women in Christ.

 

You live in bizarro world. It all depends on the context, as I have consistently hammered away at you for ages.

The use of the term 'brothers' is perfectly acceptable in certain contexts.

The NIV is my favorite translation. I will cite the occasions in which it is used in just two books to straighten you out.

Matt.
1:2,11
4:18,21
12:46,47,49
13:55
20:24
22:25
23:8
25:40
28:10

Acts
1:14
2:37
7:2,13,26
11:12
13:15
14:2
15:7,23
22:1
23:5,6

 

So based on this we can construct translation principles:

1) If the context refers to blood relations, then brother(s) should be used for G80, and sister(s) for G79.
2) If the context refers to specific individuals, as members of God's family, then use brother or sister as indicated. See 2 John 1:13.
3) If the context refers to non-specific members of God's family, then use siblings.
4)when the reference is to fellow Jews who are believers, I think we should stick with brethren, leaving the ambiguity to be resolved by the reader. Thus Acts 9:30 would remain "brethren." (See also Acts 11:1)​

As I indicated the use of brother(s) for G80 is appropriate in many cases. Note that in my lists of verses where "sibling(s) would better convey the message almost none of the verses were listed by Mr. Rippon, with two exceptions!

In Matthew 23:8, Jesus is speaking to crowds and His disciples thus a mixed group of believers and so siblings is superior to the NIV (and NASB) brothers.

In Matthew 25:40, the NIV has brothers and sisters, and the NRSV has "members of My family." Thus siblings is superior to just "brothers."

 

Be careful. When you say "so" there isn't usually a logical consequence that can be drawn.

Why? Why not use "believers" for example?

When the reference is to believers use the word believers. So simple a child could grasp the idea.
​

Because you have said so? Where are your supporters?