Featured Theological Basis for Translation Method?

I did a little more looking at the NIV and behold, of the 200 or so occurrences in the NT, the word was translated "look" 14 times and "behold" 14 times. In the remaining approximately 172 cases 23 other words and phrases were used, many the same as found in the HCSB, to translate about 71 of the appearances. That leaves about 101ommisions. Thus the NIV practices the theology of omission and the theology of non-correspondence.

 

That would be a very good answer, as regardless of source material used, the Spirit Himself made sure that the right one got over to us in the N original books!

 

The Gospels and the NT as indded the "main message of the scriptures", as they are the full revelation iven to them of the truth of God, as they complete the partial understanding given to those under the old covenant with God!

 

Okay, I think I have time to reply now. Apologies for the delay.

You're far too kind, thank you. You're a scholar and a gentleman.

I think I was linking together the points that all translations employ some kind of theological decision when deciding on a translation method and how they understand and process through textual criticism. However, I don't mean to indicate a high level of congruency in these areas. That said, there is some theology driving one's use of either the method or adoption of a textual critical basis imho. For instance, I prefer the critical text over something like the TR. Also, my preferred translation methodology is for something that is mediating between formal equivalency and dynamic equivalency, though I prefer more dynamic equivalency for preaching and teaching. Maybe I made too much of a point on something that should be an after-thought.

I'd also check the forwards/introductions to texts like Commentary on the NT Use of the OT by Beale and The Right Doctrine from the Wrong Texts ed Beale. While some shorter quotations don't fall into this rule, the longer ones seem to almost go out of their way to use other words or word order than the LXX. Now, this might have been for any number of reasons, not the least of which is multiple versions of the LXX, and include things like hermeneutical approach, translating from Hebrew rather than quoting from LXX, or simply quoting from memory a passage and not having the time (or ability) to find an appropriate scroll and look it up. I've got several texts in my study and can get them if we want a more in-depth conversation on this point.

We have talked about this before and I've noted that, for me, word-for-word is that every word in the original text (Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek) is directly translated into English. This is, imho, just beyond literal (or formal equivalency) and almost at an inter-linear level. Otherwise, you're talking formal equivalency. I've had some spirited conversations with some academic peers about this too, so I'm familiar with the disagreements.

Fair enough. I don't think a "one word for one word" is possible either. Particularly when one starts getting into the more complex Greek and Hebrew verbal constructions this breaks down quickly. Some Greek verbs need about five English words to get the sense. Nouns and prepositions are easier of course, but that isn't where the difficult parts of translation exist. However, when I use "word-for-word" I do mean that each word in the original is translated, mostly in the same order as the original, and the translator doesn't go far beyond those. Maybe that clarifies...apologies if I'm being overly dense.

That's a good note to remember. Some of the languages out there make things very difficult.

To the hard end of dynamic equivalency, yes that is more of a free translation utilizing the constrictions of the original language. As I've studied the nature of translation in antiquity, this is more in line with how they cited other texts. It was not common to have very formal or "literal" quotations or translations. Part of that was lack of access to materials and texts themselves.

This is the challenge of translation though.

 

Speaking of English translations, where one group of scholars thinks "behold" adequately communicates the Greek G2400, but another elects to simply omit it about 100 times, we have to face the fact the omitters were making an effort to "fix" or "improve" the very words of God. Scripture has unkind words for those who adulterate scripture.

 

You are practicing non-sense.

 

You making absurd claims. To charge NIV and HCSB translators with adulterating Scripture is bogus. Further, because both versions sometimes elect not to use the old-fashioned English word behold is ridiculous on your part. There is nothing sacred about having to use that particular word as if the authority of Scripture depended on it is just plain silly.

 

The NIV omitted behold about 100 times. The result is adulterated scripture.

When someone reads the NT, should they use a translation that omits words and phrases, adds other words and phrases, and rewrites verses to alter the meaning of still more? As for me, I will stick to the NASB95 and other less liberal translations such as the LEB, WEB, and NKJV. The theology of Truth.

 

I think verses like Psalm 12:7-8; Proverbs 30:3-4 should lead us to take a very humble attitude towards translating the Scriptures. I suggest that translations should be as close to the original as is consistent with good English (or Japanese).

 

If one holds holds that every word in the original texs were from God, then why would we not choose to adopt ad use formal method to tranlate the scriptures then?

 

Yes. Thank you. I must have been even more confused than usual when I wrote that.

That is correct. I am no great Greek scholar, but I know enough to know that a completely 'word-for-word' translation is not really compatible with readability. However, the aim of the translator should be to render the words of the text as accurately as possible and not to try to second-guess the Holy Spirit as to its meaning.

 

This gord bckto translation philosphy, as shouldthe original texts be rendered as word for word asmuch as possible, or to do th DE as muh aspossible?

ALL version interprete at times, just some do it more often!

 

I disagree. Instead of the irreverent G_ _ forbid, other sound translations use various expressions such as :May it never be, Of course not, of course not etc. These expressions are quite intelligible.

I have never heard of the "Conceptual Theory of Translation." Did you make that up, or do you have source for it?

Many godly men have participated in translating Scripture which does not use formal equivalence. Some of your relatives even and men you have expressed respect for.

 

He isn't making it up. Though the definition changes slightly between writers describing it. Robert Plummer lumps it in with Dynamic theory in his book on "Interperting the Bible", chapter 3. Paul Enns separates conceptual from dynamic and treats them as 2 modes of inspiration (Moody Handbook on Biblical theology; Chapter on Bibliology). Millard Erickson speaks of it in his work on Christian Doctrine as well; Chapter 5 "Inspiration ".



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That is impossible. Verbatim means the exact words --not a representation, as in a translation. It's a
ludicrous position. Think about it. English words don't have exact equivalents of Greek. Verbatim translators is also an oxymoron. You really think that verbatim translations exist? How could there possibly be more than one translation? If you believe that a translation is expressing the exact words, then no other version could also be ispissima verba. No differences would be allowed.

 

Actually, I think "God forbid!" is quite a good translation. The Greek me yenoito is actually a prayer, "Let it not be!" So "By no means!" or "Of course not!" doesn't quite fit the bill since either of those is a strong assertion rather than a prayer. "May it never be!" is nearest to the original, but I don't know of any translation that uses it, perhaps because it's a bit clumpy.