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Featured The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by cgaviria, Apr 6, 2017.

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  1. cgaviria

    cgaviria Member
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    #1 cgaviria, Apr 6, 2017
  2. John Cloakey

    John Cloakey New Member
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    WAS THE LAW OF MOSES ABOLISHED AT THE CROSS? | Right Word Truth Check this out. You might change your views on a couple of your statements. I'm not sure how you would incorporate Romans 2:16. The old covenant was a "good" tree of the knowledge of good and evil. How old is this country? The politicians are still passing laws every day. What does that tell one about law? Don't eat...
     
    #2 John Cloakey, Apr 7, 2017
  3. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps the answer to the question depends upon the audience being addressed.

    Matthew has been called the gospel to the Jews.
    Matthew wrote his gospel to convince fellow Jews that Jesus was the messiah foretold in the Old Testament.
    Scholars surmise that the gospel was written for skeptical synagogues in Israel.

    Matthew quoted Jesus:
    “Don’t think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or one stroke of a letter will pass away from the law until all things are accomplished. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commands and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever does and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    Matthew 5:17-19 CSB
    ​
    His purpose, to convince his audience that Jesus was the Great Prophet in the likeness of Moses
    “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him."
    Deuteronomy 18:15 CSB
    ​
    Matthew was presenting Jesus as the New Moses, and the fulfillment of the Hebrew scriptures.
    Why Jesus even added to law (the beatitudes).

    On the other hand, the gentiles would find the law restrictive and binding. Paul would present the Law differently. The Gentiles were free from the law and need not submit to it.

    Rob
     
    #3 Deacon, Apr 7, 2017
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    It applied just to Israel though. correct? as in how to regulate a culture for God... We still are under the moral aspect of it...
     
    #4 Yeshua1, Apr 7, 2017
  5. Frank Leyland

    Frank Leyland New Member
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    Y'shua (Jesus) fulfilled/completed The Law. No one else could nor can. Therefore The Law (the 'schoolteacher', has been made redundant by The Messiah). If you try to live by The Torah you will die by The Law. The New Covenant is by Faith - the schoolteacher is now deceased.
     
    #5 Frank Leyland, Apr 8, 2017
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    It servd its purpose, as it pointed us towards the righteousness now made available to us by the death/resurrection of Jesus!
     
    #6 Yeshua1, Apr 8, 2017
  7. Frank Leyland

    Frank Leyland New Member
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    Yes, I agree with you, even though your spelling needs correction.
     
    #7 Frank Leyland, Apr 8, 2017
  8. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Adam and Eve were arch antinomians.
    I have yet to read the antinomian without covert ulterior motive. Antinomians never tell about their hidden agenda until they are found out, and they and their agenda, are exposed and discovered naked and wanting. Then is it that antinomians turn into most vigorous protagonists of law, legalism and self-righteousness.
    Adam and Eve were arch hypocrites.
     
    #8 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Apr 9, 2017
  9. Jason1

    Jason1 Member

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    The law of moses is still in effect. It can not be added to or taken away from (deu 4:2). Jesus did not add or take away, but give the proper interpretation of it (filled it full or fulfilled).

    The new covenant has the same laws with better promises.
     
    #9 Jason1, Apr 14, 2017
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Perhaps the difference is the role in which these commandments assume under the Law and under the New Covenant. The Mosaic Law consisted of commandments given to Israel, and ultimately kept them shut up under sin, bound over to disobedience (Gal 3:22; Rom 11:32). We, however, are not under the Law (which is the Old Covenant) as it was never given to us and is fulfilled in Christ (we are promised neither reward or condemnation under the Mosaic Law, but are promised life under the New Covenant). Where the focus of the Law is obedience, the focus of the New Covenant is Christ. Obedience to the former is not a means of obtaining the later, but instead is fulfilled in the latter which is apprehended via faith.

    In other words, where obedience under the Law was prescriptive ("do this and live"), it is descriptive under the New Covenant ("if you love Me you will obey my commandments").
     
    #10 JonC, Apr 14, 2017
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  11. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    You can't do the Jewish law without animal sacrifice. Jesus ended the need for animal sacrifice by giving his life for us. The law and animal sacrifice are yoked together, you cannot do one without the other, despite what the likes of the United Church of God and others might suggest!
     
    #11 Ben W, Apr 14, 2017
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  12. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    If
    The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished,

    have you stoned anyone for gathering firewood on the sabbath lately? The weather's not that warm yet.
     
    #12 Alcott, Apr 14, 2017
  13. cgaviria

    cgaviria Member
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    The seventh day Sabbath is a foreshadow for the last thousand years of this heaven and earth. It will be in that timeframe, that those who do not obey the commands of Jesus Christ in his established kingdom on earth will be thrown into the lava lake. As such, the requirement to kill sabbath breakers will be fulfilled then.
     
    #13 cgaviria, Apr 14, 2017
  14. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Burt have you stoned any sabbath wood gatherers, as in Numbers 15:32-36?
     
    #14 Alcott, Apr 14, 2017
  15. Jason1

    Jason1 Member

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    The law has always been about love. This is not a new concept and if you look at the two greatest commandments: Deu 6:4 and Lev 19:18 you will see this. Love is not an emotional feeling but is a dedication to the Creator.

    Being "Under the law" is being under its condemnation. We were set free from the condemnation of it when we believe and obey, but we are not now made lawless. The focus of the Old and the New is both obedience. REPENT (turn and obey) for the kingdom is at hand.
     
    #15 Jason1, Apr 14, 2017
  16. Jason1

    Jason1 Member

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    Animal sacrifices cannot be done today because there is no temple and no officiating priesthood. Thus we are keeping the law by not doing these now.
     
    #16 Jason1, Apr 14, 2017
  17. cgaviria

    cgaviria Member
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    Did you not understand the statement I made? You would not have asked this if you had understood. Reread it.
     
    #17 cgaviria, Apr 14, 2017
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    When Jesus declared a new covenant He has made the Old Covenant obsolete.

    The Law (Mosaic Law) was a covenant given to Israel during Moses' lifetime - it was new in that the covenant did not exist for Israel prior to Moses (Deut. 5:3). It was a covenant of love, I agree. Perhaps there should be a distinction made between "under the law" in terms of God's moral law and "under the Law" in terms of under the Mosaic Law. The two are not the same.

    The focus on the Old Covenant is obedience to God's commandments. It was a covenant that contained both a blessing and a curse, but ultimately demonstrated to man his sin. But the New Covenant is not one of obedience (to merit the blessings of the covenant). It is the covenant of the Promise. Repent and believe does not mean "obey these commandments and you will be saved". It means to turn from unbelief and believe. Turn from distrust to trust. It is a change of heart. It does not come out of obeying the law, but results in obedience to God's command.
     
    #18 JonC, Apr 14, 2017
  19. Jason1

    Jason1 Member

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    Repenting is far more than trusting and believing. Don't you know that even the devil believe and tremble?

    True repentance is indeed believing, but having the wrong actions corrected. The wrong actions are those contrary to His torah. All 10 commandments are still valid (yes, even sabbath). Eating unclean meats is still wrong and still bad for you. Remembering appointed times still have foreshadows of the future and remembrances of the past.

    Jesus could not add to or take away from the law unless he was false. He came only speaking His Father's words (torah) and walking accordingly being sinless (perfect law keeper). He came to take our penalty for breaking it so he could restore us back to t he Father in a New Covenant (marriage) which was the same deal with better promises. Its not some ethereal "Believe and do whatever you want" gospel. That is the same as satanism's message of "Do what thou wilt".

    Name 1 law you disagree with and think the Creator messed up on.
     
    #19 Jason1, Apr 14, 2017
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The verse you reference proves the distinction I just made (unless you are suggesting the demons trust in Jesus for their salvation). Don't you see that in James words?

    What you seem to be missing is the claim that Jesus made regarding not only Torah but the entire Old Testament. Jesus' claim was/is that it is about Him (not, as you have it, the other way around and in part).

    Do you believe we follow the Mosaic Law in order to merit our salvation? Or do you believe that if we love God we will obey His commands? It's quite an easy distinction to see, but sometimes a more difficult choice to make. It's repentance and belief.
     
    #20 JonC, Apr 14, 2017
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