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Featured 2 Thessalonians 2:13 handled properly

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SovereignGrace, May 3, 2017.

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  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    through sanctification of the spirit, and belief of the truth

    by sanctification is meant, not anything external, as reformation of life, obedience to the law, or outward submission to Gospel ordinances; but internal holiness, which lies in a principle of spiritual life in the soul, and in a principle of spiritual light on the understanding; in a flexion of the will to the will of God, and the way of salvation by Christ; in a settlement of the affections on divine and spiritual things, and in an implantation of all grace in the heart; and is called the sanctification of "the spirit", partly from the spirit or soul of man being the principal seat of it, and chiefly from the Spirit of God being the author of it; and this being a means fixed in the decree of election to salvation, shows that holiness is not the cause of election, yet is certain by it, and is necessary to salvation; and that the doctrine of election is no licentious doctrine, since it provides for and secures true and real holiness. "Truth" designs either the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the truth of types and promises, and the substance of the truth of the Gospel, in whom it lies, and by whom it comes; or the Gospel itself, which comes from the God of truth, lies in the Scriptures of truth, is dictated and directed into by the spirit of truth; the sum of it is Christ the truth, and has nothing in it but truth. The "belief" or "faith" of this intends, not an historical faith, or a mere assent to truth; but a cordial embracing of it, a receiving of the love of the truth, a feeling of the power of it unto salvation, and a believing in Christ, the substance of it; which is a seeing of him spiritually, and a going out of the soul to him in acts of hope; reliance, trust, and dependence; and this being also a means settled in the choice of men to salvation, makes it appear, that faith is no cause of election, but the effect of it; that it is necessary to salvation, and therefore appointed as a means; that it is certain to the elect by it, and that they therefore cannot be finally and totally deceived, or be carried away with the error of the wicked, or with the deceivableness of unrighteousness with which antichrist works.--John Gill

    This old Brother nailed it...
     
    #1 SovereignGrace, May 3, 2017
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  2. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Matthew Poole's English Annotations on the Holy Bible

    The apostle here exempts these Thessalonians out of the number of those reprobates that he had before spoken of, and speaks of them as such as should be preserved from apostacy in faith or practice, and obtain salvation. And this he mentions for comfort to them, and with thanksgivings to God. He had often before given thanks for them, 1 Thessalonians 1:2 2:13 3:9; and in 2 Thessalonians 1:3; and both here and there mentions it as a debt he was bound unto, or a duty he owed, we ought to give thanks, as in the Greek. And here he styles them, not only
    brethren, as often before, but beloved of the Lord, such as have been and are beloved; and therefore not in the number of them that should be damned, mentioned in the former verse.

    Because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation: which words are either to give the reason of the apostle’s thanksgivings, or rather all arguments to evidence they were beloved of the Lord. And he instanceth in their election as a proof of it. There is an election to office, as David to be king, 2 Samuel 6:21, and Judas to be an apostle, John 6:70; and election to a visible church, and means of salvation, and thus the seed of Abraham were chosen, Deuteronomy 26:18 Psalms 135:4 Psalms 147:19; and election to salvation, as in the text; which is either that which follows faith, as some understand that place, Matthew 22:14, or rather that which goes before it, said here to be from the beginnning: not from the beginning of the gospel, as some say; nor from the beginning of our preaching to you, or of your effectual calling, as others say; no, nor yet is it meant from the beginning of the world, which was the beginning of time; or immediately upon Adam’s fall: but by beginning is here meant eternity itself, as election is said to be from before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1:4, which is from eternity. Though beginning seems to relate to time, yet the Scriptures often express eternity by such words as relate to time: as when God is called the Ancient of days, Daniel 7:9, it signifies his eternity; and Jude speaks of some that were of old ordained to condemnation, Jude 1:4, palai progegrammenoi, God’s eternal decrees being compared to a book wherein names are written. When was their ordaining but from eternity? And it is election to salvation, complete salvation, which is here meant, in the full fruition of it; not in the title to it by faith, or the first-fruits of it in sanctification, because they are here mentioned as the means that tend to it.

    Through sanctification of the Spirit: election is to the means as well as the end, as Ephesians 1:4. Holiness is not the cause of God’s election, but God hath decreed it to be the way to salvation; without holiness none shall ever see the Lord, Hebrews 12:14.

    And belief of the truth: and therefore those were spoken of as persons to be damned who believed not the truth, in the former verse. And so it is evident, election is not upon the foresight of faith, it is through it we have salvation, but not election: but of this before, 1 Thessalonians 4:1-18. And the apostle joins sanctification and faith together, for they are not and cannot be put asunder. Now by all this the apostle proves they were beloved of the Lord. He saw the fruits of election in their sanctification and belief of the truth, thence concludes they were elected, and therefore loved.
     
    #2 SovereignGrace, May 3, 2017
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  3. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Albert Barnes...

    2 Thessalonians 2:13--But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:


    But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you; - see the notes on 2 Thessalonians 1:3. "Because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation." The following important things are affirmed or implied here:
    (1) That God had chosen or elected them (εἵλετο heileto) to salvation. The doctrine of election, therefore, is true.

    (2) that this was from "the beginning" ἀπ ̓ ἀρχῆς ap' archēs; that is, from eternity; see the John 1:1 note; Ephesians 1:4; Ephesians 3:9-11 notes. The doctrine of eternal election is, therefore, true.

    (3) that this was the choice of the persons to whom Paul referred. The doctrine of personal election is, therefore, true.

    (4) that this is a reason for thanksgiving. Why should it not be? Can there be any higher ground of praise or gratitude than that God has chosen us to be eternally holy and happy, and that he has from eternity designed that we should be so? Whatever, therefore, may be the feelings with which those who are not chosen to salvation, regard this doctrine, it is clear that those who have evidence that they are chosen should make it a subject of grateful praise. They can have no more exalted source of gratitude than that they are chosen to eternal life.


    Through sanctification of the Spirit - Being made holy by the Divine Spirit. It is not without respect to character, but it is a choice to holiness and then to salvation. No one can have evidence that he is chosen to salvation except as he has evidence that he is sanctified by the Spirit; see the notes on Ephesians 1:4.


    And belief of the truth - In connection with believing the truth. No one who is not a believer in the truth can have evidence that God has chosen him.
     
    #3 SovereignGrace, May 3, 2017
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  4. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    I notice @Van has not responded. His pet verse not being interpreted according to his pretext must make it hard for him to respond.
     
    #4 MennoSota, May 7, 2017
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  5. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    When one has been shown the folly of their ideology, they either will remain silent or admit to being wrong. But we know what @Van will do.
     
    #5 SovereignGrace, May 7, 2017
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  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, why copy and paste commentaries that agree with Calvinism? Why did the NIV, ESV and NLT rewrite the verse, changing chosen through faith into saved through faith to obfuscate the fact unconditional election is precluded by scripture.

    Lets number the errors:

    1) The word translated "sanctification" can mean either (a) being set apart for godly purpose, or (b) the process of being made holy.
    The commentaries all claim Progressive Sanctification is in view, rather than being set apart in Christ. But since the context is being chosen through sanctification, the contextual meaning is being set apart.

    2) Next the commentators change chosen through faith into faith is evidence of being chosen! Ludicrous

    2 Thessalonians 2:13 speaks for itself (see NASB, NKJV, WEB, NET, or HCSB) we are chosen for salvation through the sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
     
    #6 Van, May 8, 2017
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  7. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    LOL, is that all you got?
     
    #7 MennoSota, May 8, 2017
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  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Note that Charge-O-Matic addresses the poster and ignores the post. Endless debate flows from disobedience to the word.
     
    #8 Van, May 8, 2017
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  9. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Van, your little presentation has already been debunked by others in this forum. You're clearly wrong, but can't admit it.
     
    #9 MennoSota, May 8, 2017
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  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    More shoot the messenger bunk from Charge-O-matic.

    The word translated "sanctification" in 2 Thess. 2:13 can mean either (a) being set apart for godly purpose, or (b) the process of being made holy. The Cal commentaries all claim Progressive Sanctification is in view, rather than being set apart in Christ. But since the context is being chosen through sanctification, the contextual meaning is being set apart.

    Next the Cal commentators change chosen through faith into faith is evidence of being chosen! Ludicrous

    2 Thessalonians 2:13 speaks for itself (see NASB, NKJV, WEB, NET, or HCSB) we are chosen for salvation through the sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

    Scripture teaches in verse after verse unconditional election is fake theology, and that our election for salvation is through faith in the truth.
     
    #10 Van, May 9, 2017
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  11. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    John Gill is one of the most underrated Theologians of all time, ironically 100 years before Spurgeon took the pulpit, Gill was there. Spurgeon was immersed in Gills commentaries, Gill was there as they brought in majority texts, a wonderful time.
     
    #11 Calv1, May 9, 2017
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  12. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    Did you just say we are "Chosen for Salvation", "Through Sanctification"? I don't want to put words in your mouth, you're a loose writer, but if you think your salvation is based on YOUR SANCTIFICATION you need to attend the Church of Rome, one of the major arguments of the Reformation. If we are Chosen, we are Justified, if Justified, you know JUST BEFORE GOD, we are GLORIFIED, sanctification is in all true Spirit filled believers, but varies throughout the body, but is a RESULT OF SALVATION, not the REASON for salvation..

    And this "Guy"??? John Gill could debate in Greek, Hebrew and Latin BEFORE going to study for His doctorate.
     
    #12 Calv1, May 9, 2017
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  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hi Calv1,

    1) My post is there for you to quote, no need to ask me to repeat what I said.
    2) Did I say the meaning of "sanctification" in 2 Thess. 2:13 is being set apart for a holy purpose? Yes. Therefore we are chosen through sanctification (being set apart) by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
    3) I do not recommend RCC doctrine to anyone.
    4) Did I say sanctification was the reason for salvation? Nope - so yet another effort of obfuscation.
    5) John Gill's commentary on 2 Thessalonians 2:13 is ludicrous. Did anyone say "holiness is the basis for salvation?" Nope Again being chosen through sanctification precludes progressive sanctification being in view, that happens after a person is chosen and transferred into Christ.
     
    #13 Van, May 10, 2017
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  14. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I admire the life-long labor of scholarship that John Gill was engaged in. He was so dedicated to the ministry of the Word and the Church Universal. However, he did not get a doctorate. With his vast scholarship he should have earned several. But he was only awarded an honorary doctorate of Divinity by University of Aberdeen in 1748.
     
    #14 Rippon, May 10, 2017
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  15. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    2 Thessalonians 2
    [13]As for us, we can’t help but thank God for you, dear brothers and sisters loved by the Lord. We are always thankful that God chose you to be among the first to experience salvation—a salvation that came through the Spirit who makes you holy and through your belief in the truth.

    Salvation comes through the Spirit and the Spirit sets you apart through belief in the truth.

    I don't see any condition placed upon a person before God elects someone. In fact, all the work is done by the Spirit of God.

    Van, it looks like your own pet verse says something different than you say. I guess that shuts you out with no verses left in your quiver.
     
    #15 MennoSota, May 10, 2017
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  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I see the Cal acolyte has chosen to repost the NLT mistranslation of 2 Thessalonians 2:13. Not how the actual inspired text reads.
    As I said before, the NIV, ESV and NLT all engage in an agenda driven mistranslation of the verse to avoid what the actual inspired text says - chosen through faith in the truth. See the verse as translated by the NASB, NKJV, LEB, NET, WEB, or HCSB.

    Still waiting for someone to engage in a rational analysis of the actual verse. Only then will the endless debate of the scripture deniers be curtailed. We have had some discussion of the variants (from the beginning or as first fruits) and some discussion that sanctification refers to be set apart rather than the process of progressive sanctification.
     
    #16 Van, May 10, 2017
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  17. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for the thread SovereignGrace... I remember growing up in church and in our home my Dad had Gills commentaries... I remember those thick green heavy books... I also remember a brown one his brother gave him for his birthday called... A Body Of Doctrinal and Practical Divinity... Our Christian home was pardon the pun (bursting at the Gills)... That is some downright deep biblical study... Dad is now gone to be with the Lord he served but his collection of Gill disappeared and never figured out what happened to them.:Unsure I can't be sad:(... Now it's online...:Roflmao Beats hauling those green heavy books around... Brother Glen:eek:
     
    #17 tyndale1946, May 10, 2017
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  18. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Making excuses I see. Always an excuse for you to cling to a poor interpretation. Good night Van the one verse man.
     
    #18 MennoSota, May 10, 2017
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  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another failure to actually address the inspired version of 2 Thessalonians 2:13, but instead embrace an agenda driven mistranslation. And how many verses demonstrate conditional election for salvation? One or about a dozen? Why is it harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God, Matthew 19:23-24? Why did God choose those poor to the world, rich in faith and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love God? God's election for salvation is conditional, through faith in the truth.

    Still waiting for someone to engage in a rational analysis of the actual verse. Only then will the endless debate of the scripture deniers be curtailed. We have had some discussion of the variants (from the beginning or as first fruits) and some discussion that sanctification refers to be set apart rather than the process of progressive sanctification.
     
    #19 Van, May 11, 2017
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  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Lets take a moment to consider "from the beginning." This phrase appears in the New Testament about 21 times (NASB).
    At Matthew 19:4, 19:8 and Mark 10:6 the usage obviously refers to "from the beginning of creation" or of the creation week.
    However at Luke 1:2-3 the phrase is used to refer to the beginning of the life of Jesus. Next we have John 6:64 where from the beginning appears to refer to the beginning of Christ's public ministry when "disciples" began to "follow Him." Also the beginning of Christ's public ministry is in view at John 8:25 and 15:27. But at John 8:44 from the beginning refers to the beginning of the existence of Satan. And at Acts of the Apostles 26:4 the phrase either refers to the beginning of the life of Christ or upon His return from Egypt.

    Paul's usage of the phrase is limited to just one example (2 Thessalonians 2:13) where the phrase appears to either refer to the beginning of Christ's public ministry or the inauguration of the New Covenant.

    At 2 Peter 3:4 the phrase is again used to refer to the beginning of creation. In 1 and 2 John all the usages appear to refer to the beginning of Christ's public ministry except for 1 John 3:8 where the reference is to Satan's beginning.

    All in all 2 Thessalonians 2:13 usage appears to be referring to the beginning of Christ's public ministry or more probably the beginning of the New Covenant in His blood. From refers to anytime subsequent to the "beginning" in view.
     
    #20 Van, May 11, 2017
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