Featured Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

The clear Biblical view is that Hell is a real place in which the damned suffer eternal separation from God with no hope of regaining that relationship. The Bible states that:
Heb 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
There is no purgatory or "in between temporary" state. The Bible doesn't specify specifically what Heaven will be like other than it will be more fantastic than anything we can imagine. Similarly, Hell is many times characterized as fire and brimstones but I believe it will be much worse than we can imagine as well.

 

And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Here, Revelation 14:11 is one of the strongest verses used to support the contention "eternal punishment" includes "eternal torment." Those pushing eternal torment interpret the verse to say "the smoke of their [ongoing] torment goes up forever and ever." Certainly a reasonable view and those holding another view of the verse should not claim the eternal torment view is not possibly how it should be understood. But in light of the aforementioned verses suggesting eternal torment may not be the correct view, how else could this verse be viewed?

Just as the smoke arises from fire, smoke of their torment arises from their torment. But if the idea is to show the eternal consequence of being consigned to the Lake of Fire, then the smoke or consequence of being tormented goes up forever, referring to their eternal separation from God. Likewise, the "no rest day and night" could refer to the period of torment, rather than supporting eternal torment.

Bottom line, Revelation 14:11 provides strong support of eternal torment, but not compelling evidence in light of other scripture, IMO.

 

I'm a theologically conservative evangelical pastor of a small Baptist church. For many years I believed the Bible taught the doctrine of eternal conscious torment. However, after much careful study of the Bible, I now believe it teaches annihilationism, which is also often referred to as Conditional Immortality. I preached a two part sermon on this topic which you may find here: parresiazomai: Burned Up: Annihilationism versus Eternal Conscious Punishment

 

Van, thanks for sharing this. I agree that Revelation 14, together with Revelation 20, are the passages which appear to give strongest support to the doctrine of eternal conscious torment. In fact, they are the ONLY passages where both the idea of "eternal" and "torment" are tied together. Because I believe every word in the Bible is true, I spent a great deal of time studying these passages. I have written an extensive, 7 part blog post explaining why I am now convinced that these passages can be and should be interpreted in ways which are harmonious with annihilationism. You may find my blog series here: parresiazomai: What is the Second Death? Part 1, Symbols and Meanings
Grace and Peace, Mark (with Hope and Joy!)

 

Andy, I really appreciate the thoughtful way you are discussing this topic.

You rightly note that in Matthew 25:46, the same Greek word, "αἰώνιος" (eternal), is used twice.

NIV Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

I completely agree that it is reasonable to expect it to have the same meaning both times. I also agree that the meaning is “without end” in an absolute sense.

What is often not considered is that annihilation IS an eternal punishment. The annihilated will remain dead for all eternity and will never enjoy the presence of God or the blessings of living in the New Heavens and New Earth.

The phrase “eternal punishment” does not have to refer to an unending process. It can refer to a process of finite duration which has unending results. In this way it is similar to the phrase “eternal judgment” in Hebrews 6:2. This is not a process of judging which goes on forever. It is a judgment which takes a finite time, but which has results which remain forever. Likewise, “eternal punishment” is a punishment which takes a finite time to carry out, but which has eternal results.

Also, it should be noted in Matthew 25:46 that “eternal punishment’ is contrasted with “eternal life”. In this verse, as in EVERY verse which discusses eternal life, it is ONLY the righteous who live forever. Therefore, a punishment which consists of eternal death is a much better fit than eternal torment. Grace and Peace, Mark (with Hope and Joy!)

 

Uh no not in this case.

 

You play old and worn out tactics.

I had a long post, speaking in the general, with several specific points.
I SAID, if there was anything SPECIFIC you wanted to challenge because you disagreed...
...then challenge the point you disagreed with.

IF you were incapable of seeking and finding in scripture the point your were challenging, to just ASK and I would provide for you, what YOU COULD NOT FIND in scripture.

You elected to simply disagree with EVERYTHING I said.

So I selected ONE POINT, and SHOWED YOU that Scripture verified what I said.

You elected to simply CONTINUE disagreeing with EVERYTHING I said.

You have succeeded in straying away from what I said to simply repeating your disagreement of the whole of my post, with you never having been specific about ANY point.

I accept your inability to challenge anything specific and your choice to disagree with scripture and with me.

Go talk in circles with someone else; it bores me.

 

Eternal separation from God is eternal punishment, especially when you consider "punishment" might be referring to confinement.
Destroy can mean ruined but it can also mean obliterated. Thus at least one Greek word could support being destroyed after suffering just punishment (torment) for the individuals sins. Clearly God could destroy both the body and the soul in Gehenna.

Since Satan and his two cohorts will suffering eternal torment in the lake of fire, it is reasonable to assume the people put there will also suffer the same fate. But it is an assumption. God Bless

 

Exod.22

1. [20] He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

Matt.10

1. [28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

You are very much mistaken because you chose to use the world "annihilate", when scriptural teaching chose to use the "meaning of annihilate".

You choosing to use the world "annihilate" which does not appear in scripture, does not change the understanding of what annihilate means, or what scripture teaches, which is precisely utter destruction of the wicked, which IS annihilation!

annihilate; IS to destroy utterly!

 

Reasonable for people to assume with their minds conclusion, yes.

Factual according to Gods Word? No.

Created VESSELS are that which God imparts life (from Him, who IS Life).
Created VESSELS regularly have LIFE imparted and departed (BY God).
Created "spirits" are vessels with "forever" LIFE imparted (from God) to them.

All "holy spirits" created by God have LIFE "forever" in them, "even" when "THEY" depart BEING holy, and choose to stand AGAINST God. It is THEY who shall "forever" burn in the pit. Forever, because spirits can not die.

Mankind believer or not....all are or have vessels with life from God in them. Life absolutely can be departed from their vessels, and are regularly, and we call them DEAD.

Mankind WHO remains WICKED - which means, knowing the truth of what is right, but chooses to follow after what is wrong - never submits unto the Lord ~ and SHALL NEVER receive a "new spirit", a new spirit which is "FOREVER" living.

Thus what they do receive IS, Life departed from their body, (which is their blood), and Life departed from their soul, (which is Gods breath) and their body and soul DESTROYED in the same pit of fire, to which a Fallen Angel is sentenced to continue in their Life forever, experiencing the flames of the eternal fire.

Such a MAN, never received a forever living spirit, thus they are UTTERLY DESTROYED.

They do not suffer the TORMENT eternally of BEING in the pit of fire.
Their suffering is temporarily their living soul being hell, separated from God, while recognizing the truth, that God exists and IS God.
Their eternal TORMENT IS eternal Separation from God. It is not a PHYSICAL torment. It is a Spiritual Fact that they shall know and believe BEFORE their permanent Separation commences.[/QUOTE]

 

Thanks Mark for sharing your bible study. We do not get too many here who are willing to explain what they believe the bible teaches, especially if it is not party line Calvinism or Arminianism. I especially liked your point that you had not gone too far afield, and so even though your view is a minority view, it is mainstream and totally consistent with all scripture, contextually considered.

 

First, Andy, my post referred to the Greek word, not the English definition The Greek word, transliterated "apolymi" (G622) often refers to the ending of our physical life on earth.. For example, Luke 17:27 and 29. Now when your physical life is destroyed, you are not conscious. Thus when the word is applied to the soul (Matthew 10:28) it is reasonable to conclude the same idea, the end of conscious life, is in view.

 

See my post #118.

And note that Mark made clear he is not advocating "annihilation" at death, but "annihilation" after being tormented in the Lake of Fire such that the lost are punished perfectly for their sins. This would be consistent with some punishment being more tolerable than for others.