Featured Dr. D. Wallace's View of Election

"why God would choose us through faith in the truth if as some claim He already had chosen us as foreseen individuals before He created us?"

Education perhaps, to get to know you. I gave example of one person. But there are other examples far beyond "9 month" period. For example the prophecy of Babylonian captivity. We are talking about God making prophecy 800 years in advanced of certain "evil" to come.

Think about the Anti-Christ, he will be a human, is this guy predestined to damnation? You have prophecy of Judas, You don't think God knew this was going to happen?

You might ask does a merciful loving God work this way?

We are responsible for the measure of faith we are given. And some times God might deny one to actually save another.

Example:

Romans 11

30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.


The reason credited for these sinners being shown mercy, is because the disobedience of others. And it even extends that those who are NOW shown mercy to be the source of mercy to be shown to the disobedient.

God even grabs the good people ties them up with the sinners and says everyone is disobedient everyone is shown mercy.

God can have you turn evil absolutely and with force, he might already trust you "as is" he needs to exercise the faith of another at your expense. God will leave 99 for a lost one. 99 righteous and good people, he will dump them, sacrifice them, expend them for the sake of a lost one.


Don't take God's perspective as a judge. He is not called God the Judge, He is called God the Father. He is raising his children. Those who do evil are suffering, Those who do evil are afraid, They are victims to themselves too. A father will do what he can to set the stage for repentance.


Romans 11

13But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. 15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?


Ask yourself how is it that the rejection of Jesus Christ by the Jews equaled reconciliation to everyone else. He even adds what will it mean when the rejectors accept?

Can you imagine being thankful someone sinned and rejected? We don't thank them by saying hey keep sinning, so we get more grace. We thank them for what we got with what we got right? Faith in Christ.

Now some folks may feel well its looking pretty bleak for these folks or that folks, the cure for that is meet God. God is the absolute perfect Father. The guy we care for least God cares for them as if his only child.

God is a Father first. His children are going to come first, the opposite of selfish and cowardice.

 

Really?

God only has a clue for some things, not all?

Sorry, but your opinion is not Biblically sound.

 

I want to compress things to a small post, with questions so I can get a clear understanding of what you believe.
Then I will follow to best explain God's capacity.

Does God know absolutely everything to the smallest detail of the future?

If the answer is no, then God does not know everything and God is not omniscient.

The statement that nothing is impossible for God is false, correct?

 

And your credentials are what, as compared to his?

 

The answer is because God is Sovereign and he does as he wills.

Unfortunately, Van, forces the text to say that human faith is the catalyst to redemption, not God's choice.

Here's what 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says.

Note that salvation first comes by God's Spirit, which activates our faith. It is all God's work. Van, your opinion is flat out wrong.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
[13]As for us, we can’t help but thank God for you, dear brothers and sisters loved by the Lord. We are always thankful that God chose you to be among the first to experience salvation—a salvation that came through the Spirit who makes you holy and through your belief in the truth.
[14]He called you to salvation when we told you the Good News; now you can share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Look out, you are now using the real meaning of the scriptures now!
Would be interesting to have Dr Wallace debate Van in the Greek on the doctrine of biblical election!

 

You don't comprehend that your view teaches that God is weak and he is obligated to the efforts of men to conjure up their own faith.
You put the cart before the horse and honor the cart for its impressive work.

 

1) God...from the beginning
2) chose to save you
3) by the Spirit of God's setting you apart.
4) and then your belief of the truth

Notice the order that Paul so very clearly lays out.

It is a foolish thing to preach that a man's own conjuring up of faith compels God to redeem that man. Not only is it foolish, it's heresy.

 

My questions is just so I can grasp your understanding.

Is the following scripture legit or does this contain a corruption?

Matthew 19

26And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

 

This is why the Cross id really flloish to the lost, for it reveals that we can do nothing to save ourselves, as we want to "help God out"

 

Van, I merely point out what the verse YOU posted says. The progression is clear.
You refuse to pay attention because recognizing God's sovereignty in the verse throws your personal narrative into disarray.
What any person, led by the Spirit, will do is recognize your false teaching and call you out. I have done this and shown why your narrative is wrong.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 does not say what you claim it says. It is that simple.

 

Huh?

 

Welcome to the debate board.

Sorry Van, But you have to retract your post if its off topic insisting we swallow as a given that things are impossible with God to clam me up.

I didn't go off topic. It appears you claim things impossible for God as a invention, you claim he never predestined anyone, you asked for scripture, and then you got it.

And I only say APPEARS, because I still don't know what the heck you believe.


Is there anyone on this thread or board that understands you? Its because of this flaw in communication we ask to clear up what you are "trying" to say.

I don't agree with C or A but not at the expense of throwing out the baby with bathwater.