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Featured Dr. D. Wallace's View of Election

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Van, Jul 12, 2017.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another unbiblical assertion devoid of any scriptural support. We are chosen through faith, not before faith. Ask yourself why a person would deny the obvious? Suppress the truth cross your mind?

    Returning to topic:
    1) We were individually elected for salvation during our lifetime, after we had lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10)
    2) We were individually elected for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
    3) God chose folks who were poor to the world, rich in faith, and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love Him (James 2:5)
    4) When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He also chose us corporately as the target group of His redemption plan, thus He chose us in Him. (Ephesians 1:4)​
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No matter how many times you say it, your theology in this area is wrong!
     
    #102 Yeshua1, Aug 3, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Note all they have is shouting taint so, taint so, but no scripture to support their false theology.

    1) We were individually elected for salvation during our lifetime, after we had lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10)
    2) We were individually elected for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
    3) God chose folks who were poor to the world, rich in faith, and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love Him (James 2:5)
    4) When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He also chose us corporately as the target group of His redemption plan, thus He chose us in Him. (Ephesians 1:4)​
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You did not choose Him first, but he chose you! You loved him due to Him first loving you!
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here is a short list of questions, the false theology folks do not answer:
    1. Why did Jesus teach in parables according to Matthew 13:
    2) Why did God need to harden the hearts in Romans 11:
    3) How could the people of Matthew 23:13 have been entering the kingdom yet be blocked?
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another false theology profession. We were chosen through faith, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. God chooses people rich in faith. Note the sneaky effort to equate God's love from everlasting, with God's individual election. Absurdity? The dog will not hunt.

    Did they answer any of the questions or did they seek to change the subject?
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    IF God chooses based upon our faith, he would be a respecter of persons!
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus spoke in parables in order to agree with Isaiah that the People were far from God in their hearts, and were blind/deaf and dumb to his teachings! Also, to have the truths be revelaed to his own, and not the rest of them.
    And salvation process is just not the way you see it in the scriptures!
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Did you see an answer to the questions or yet another change of subject effort. Does God oppose the proud and give grace to the humble. Yes. Does anyone say no because that means God is a respecter of humble persons? God is not a respecter of persons according to the world's value system. On and on they go, proclaiming one false theology point to bolster another false theology point.

    Here is a short list of questions, the false theology folks do not answer:
    1. Why did Jesus teach in parables according to Matthew 13:
    2) Why did God need to harden the hearts in Romans 11:
    3) How could the people of Matthew 23:13 have been entering the kingdom yet be blocked?

    1) We were individually elected for salvation during our lifetime, after we had lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10)
    2) We were individually elected for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
    3) God chose folks who were poor to the world, rich in faith, and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love Him (James 2:5)
    4) When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He also chose us corporately as the target group of His redemption plan, thus He chose us in Him. (Ephesians 1:4)
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    More false theology, Jesus spoke in parables so they would not understand and be healed, because the time had not yet come to profess the gospel to the world. Thus Matthew 13 teaches the lost can respond to the gospel.

    So they missed the first question and have not answered the next two.
     
  11. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Van, why does God's choice, purely by grace apart from works, seem absurd to you?
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Did you see any answers? Neither did I. Did you see any support for unconditional election cited? Neither did I. Did you see a claim of being able to read the mind of opponents and find ulterior motives? Yes indeed. This is all they have folks.

    Here is a short list of questions, the false theology folks do not answer:
    1. Why did Jesus teach in parables according to Matthew 13:
    2) Why did God need to harden the hearts in Romans 11:
    3) How could the people of Matthew 23:13 have been entering the kingdom yet be blocked?

    1) We were individually elected for salvation during our lifetime, after we had lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10)
    2) We were individually elected for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
    3) God chose folks who were poor to the world, rich in faith, and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love Him (James 2:5)
    4) When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He also chose us corporately as the target group of His redemption plan, thus He chose us in Him. (Ephesians 1:4)
     
  13. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I asked for scripture to support your "made up rule" that scripture is the sole final authority, nothing was provided, thank you for conceding your error.

    I think your behavior is excellent.

    "returning to topic"

    From what I understand you are saying God elects a person during their lifetime.
    In #4 it sounds like a person is elect prior to the foundation of the world.

    Can you clarify? thank you.
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No person existed before creation, only God in three Persons. God the Father chose God the Son, the second Person of the Trinity to be His Redeemer, His Lamb of God. Now you do not choose a Redeemer without a plan to Redeem, so when God chose His Redeemer, He chose us in Him corporately as the target group of His redemption plan.

    Now why did you say I said we were chosen during our lifetime, rather than addressing what scripture says. How could we live without mercy, and be "not a people" if we had been chosen as foreseen individuals before creation. Answer, that theory conflicts with many verses, so the election before creation was corporate.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    On what basis is a sinner justified in sight of a Holy God then? By our faith in Jesus, as something that we can actively use to get saved, or by turning to Jesus to Gets saved due to God first changing us and enabling us to get saved now?
    Is God active or passive in salvation?
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Maybe due to that theology does not agree with his exposition!
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Gospel had to wait until the resurrection of Jesus....
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Still no answer to the questions, but instead we get the above. I have a question, why do the Calvinists, at least some of them, pretend they do not know about the blood and the washing of regeneration? Do think they know but want to change the subject?

    Nextt, the Calvinists, or at least one of them, pretends that lost people do something to merit salvation. More nonsense to change the subject.

    Will any scripture be offered to support this false theology? Nope.. They offer this fiction but do not even answer the following:
    1. Why did Jesus teach in parables according to Matthew 13:
    2) Why did God need to harden the hearts in Romans 11:
    3) How could the people of Matthew 23:13 have been entering the kingdom yet be blocked?
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How can we who are sinners by nature be able to find within ourselves saving faith? And why would those who are life long enemies of god now decide to love God and now obey Him?
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Same errors...just a different day:Cautious
     
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