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Featured The Bride of Christ is NOT the Church!

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Felipe Rios, Aug 18, 2017.

  1. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    I want people who will be reading this post to think outside the box. I know this view is foreign to most Christians and it will be the first time some will hear of this view. As we all know, tradition isn’t always correct and scriptural. With this is mind, I want the reader to look at scripture at face value and put aside any presumptions or traditions that have been taught for many years.

    Most Christians believe that the bride of Christ is the Church or a group within the church. The problem I have with that is that the Bible does not say that the church is the bride of Christ. Most will use Ephesians 5:22-33 and 2 Corinthians 11:2 to make this assumption. Neither of those passages state the church is the bride. As a matter of fact, the bride of Christ is only identified in Revelation 21:9-10.

    Revelation 21:9-10 says, "Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb. And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God."

    Notice how the angel did not show him a people, the church, a group within the church, Israel, etc. The angel showed him a literal city of gold. If the church was the bride, wouldn't the angel show him a people and then go on to describe the people of God, the bride? The angel shows him the bride which is the City New Jerusalem and then goes on to describe this bride in the following verses (v.11-27). If we are going to be intellectually honest, we clearly see that the angel was to show John the bride of Christ. The angel DOES NOT show him a church or churches, neither does he show him God's redeemed in whole or in part. He showed him a city.

    I know your first reaction will be: “How can Jesus marry a city?” This is very possible for two reasons. First, with Jesus all things are possible. Second, Jesus will marry this city to show the relationship He has with this city which will be the “mother” of those who dwell in it (Gal.4:26). The idea of a King marrying an actual city is not foreign to scripture. As a matter of fact, Isaiah 62:4 states, “It will no longer be said to you, "Forsaken," Nor to your land will it any longer be said, "Desolate"; But you will be called, "My delight is in her," And your land, "Married"; For the LORD delights in you, And to Him your land will be married.”

    Your second reaction might be: “Revelation 21:2 states that this city comes down “as” a bride, therefore it is not the bride.” This can be easily explained. The reason why Rev.21:2 says that the New Jerusalem comes down prepared "as" a bride is because the New Jerusalem is a bride in "figure" NOT in "fact." This city is not an "actual" bride with flesh and bones. Jesus marries this city simply to show the relationship between Him and His/our eternal abode. Hence the reason why this city is called "our mother" in Gal.4:26. This city is the bride of our Father Jesus Christ and is our mother in figure to show our relationship to this city.

    Let’s now look at the most common verses that are used to teach that the church is the bride of Christ found in Ephesians 5:22-33. There are 3 things that I would like to point out about these verses. 1) None of these verses say that the church is the bride. 2) These verses shows us that the church is the BODY of Christ. Notice how verse 23 says that the church is the body of Christ. The emphasis throughout these verses is that the church is the body, not a bride. What Paul is teaching here is that husbands need to love their wives just as Christ loves his body, the church. 3) According to the context, the mystery spoken of in verse 32 is the unity that Christ has with each local church. The mystery is that the church is the body of Christ, not that the church is the bride!

    What about 2 Corinthians 11:2? Doesn’t it state that the church is espoused to Christ and that she will marry Christ one day? Let’s look at what Paul said: “For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.” The Corinthian was facing many false prophets who were trying to deceive the church. Paul was afraid that they would be deceived, hence the reason why he says in verse 4, “But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.” This verse is simply an illustration as to how each local church is to behave itself. All Paul is teaching is that the churches of God need to behave themselves and remain pure (in doctrine and walk) JUST LIKE a wife is supposed to behave and remain pure for her husband. THAT IS ALL! Paul is not teaching bridal relationship or the doctrine of the bride. If we take 2 Cor.11:2 literal, then that would mean that Paul would not be in the bride since he is the one doing the espousing. But we know that would not even make sense. Nevertheless, Paul is using a figure or illustration to show that churches need to remain pure until Christ comes back for His churches.

    The parable of the marriage supper in Matthew 22:1-14 emphasizes everything I have been saying. This parable makes it very clear that those who are called to the wedding are called to be the “guests” to this wedding (v.11), NOT to be the bride. As a matter of fact, this parable does not identity who the bride is. It simply identifies the king (God the Father), the son (Jesus Christ) and the guests (those who accept the gospel). Those who accept this invitation and prepare themselves properly are the redeemed who truly repented and believed in Christ and robed themselves with the righteousness of Christ. The ones who don't prepare themselves will not have access to this wedding and will be thrown to outer darkness (hell). The children of God are then the "blessed ones" who are admitted to the wedding of the Lamb as spoken of in Rev.19. We are simply the "guests" to this wedding, not the bride.

    The interesting thing is that Jesus NEVER called his church (his disciples) a bride. He makes it very clear who the church is in a scene where He was approached by the Pharisees in Matthew 9:14-15, “Then the disciples of John came to Him, asking, “Why do we and the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?” 15 And Jesus said to them, “The attendants of the bridegroom cannot mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them, can they? But the days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast.” Notice how Jesus calls his disciples “attendants of the bridegroom,” and He doesn’t call them the “bride of the bridegroom.” The word “attendants” here can also be translated as “guests, wedding guests, sons of the bridechamber, children of the bridechamber, and friends.” All translations mean the same thing and it clearly shows that we (disciples) are the guests/friends to this wedding, not the bride.

    Many theologians try to spiritualize Revelation 21:9-10 by saying that the New Jerusalem is a symbol of the church so therefore the bride is the church. The problem with that interpretation is that if the New Jerusalem is a symbol or metaphor of the church then that would mean that we would have to spiritualize the whole chapter and that can be very dangerous. We would have to find the meaning for: the measurement, the wall, the street, the tree of life, the river, etc. The city described in Revelation 21 is a literal city which Abraham and patriarchs waited for.

    The bible is very clear on the identity of the Bride. “Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb. And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God."


    I know this view may be strange to some because they have never heard it. We have to keep in mind that we have to follow the Bible and not tradition. I hope this can spark some good conversations and good thoughts. God Bless!!!
     
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  2. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Well, I thought outside the box. But Jack sprang up too soon to think very far.
     
  3. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    Good try, but I will stick by the long taught teaching that the Church is indeed the "Bride of Christ".
     
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  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    That is your interpretation Filipo.

    At very least the New Jerusalem Contains the church since a church symbol is used in its multi-faceted description:

    Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

    HankD
     
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  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Look closer. It's not a box but a book. :Wink

    I like that you are recognizing the dangers of clinging to tradition, but I do think that you've missed the mark here. The reason is that you are looking at it backwards. Marriage points to the relationship between Christ and the Church in a way that foreshadows it. We can't look at it backwards (that Christ and the Church will enter into a marriage).
     
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  6. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    I have heard that before. The New Jerusalem is he true church, as is the bride, the Mystery Babylon the Great is he Roman Catholic Church, as is the harlot.
    2 cities, two women. 2 churches. A woman in Revelation always refers to a church. Once a symbol is given , it does not change, or the symbol is of no use.

    Unlike Brethren futurist teaching, which says that once a symbol is given it is discarded. That is how they get their strange interpretation.
     
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  7. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    hahaha
     
  8. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    I respect your decision!
     
  9. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    oops, my bad Felipe, I misspelled your name.

    I am sorry.

    HankD
     
  10. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    The foundations represents the church, but the foundation is not the City itself. The city represents the bride.
     
  11. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    I actually don't want you to think outside the Book lol =)
    I completely understand what you are saying but the problem is that your thinking on this marriage would not match what is presented in Revelation 21.
     
  12. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    A woman does not always represent a city or a church. As a matter of fact, the woman in Revelation 12:1 is speaking of Israel.
     
  13. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    Lol no problem
     
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  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    :Biggrin I was a bit worried you'd take the book thing wrong (as we don't know one another). I'm glad you took it as light as I intended it to be taken.

    I disagree that this marriage does not match what is presented in Revelation 21. I think the point is not this New Jerusalem is separate from the Church but is in fact the marriage itself (not the Bride but God making His abode with man).
     
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  15. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    Who would you say the guests to the wedding are?
     
  16. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Redeemed Israel is also figured in the Revelation passage
    Revelation 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

    Some believe the church is also populated by all the redeemed from before the cross as well as those of the ekklesia which does complicate matters.

    So Personally I believe the bride of Christ are all the redeemed of both Israel and the ekklesia yet distinct even as they are in the Revelation.

    As they were distinct on earth so in the New Jerusalem.

    Not separate - distinct.

    HankD
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    D.A. Carson once mentioned (almost in passing) that he believed the New Jerusalem represents the presence of God coming down to dwell with man. I think he is right here and that what we are seeing is not a bride but rather a marriage. The New Jerusalem already introduced John is shown the bride, the wife of the Lamb. I do not think that there is as much a distinction between the bride and husband, which is (I believe) the point. This New Jerusalem is God dwelling with man in context of a fulfillment of what the Church points to.

    That said, I do spiritualize the chapter (you are right about that).
     
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  18. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    so who would be the "guests" to this wedding?
     
  19. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    So do you believe this city is an actual literal city of gold?
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. I don't believe it is a literal city at all. I believe it is God dwelling with man in a new heaven and new earth.
     
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