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Featured Arminianism and Calvinism part 2

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MennoSota, Aug 6, 2017.

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  1. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    John Calvin believes in Infant Baptism along with hereditary election. You can read that in institutes.

    I suppose John Calvin is good a Calvinist as any.

    If you don't believe in infant baptism, then you must not be a real Calvinist.

    The board says "all Christians" The subject is Calvinism & Armenian debate.
    Beer vs Vodka, Dumb vs Dumber, Armenian Vs Calvinist. Hey you get my 2 cents.
     
    #121 utilyan, Aug 20, 2017
  2. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Amen to all scripture. I love the word of the Lord. I do not disagree with any single one of those verse.

    None tells us of God declaring "that all Mankind deserves hell".

    Your license to sin has been revoked, stop judging others.
     
    #122 utilyan, Aug 20, 2017
  3. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    The term "Calvinist" has become ubiquitous with the Reformed view of predestination and election. It is no more than that. Some Calvinists prefer to be called Monergists because it takes the baggage out of the term Calvinist. The term does not bother me since I know what I believe.
     
    #123 Reformed, Aug 20, 2017
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  4. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    So...where are the verses that support free will?
    Your first verse is addressed to Israel. Your second passage is addressed to church discipline. The third is in regard to avoiding foolish arguments dealing with genealogy.
    I'm waiting for verses supporting free will in regard to salvation.
     
    #124 MennoSota, Aug 20, 2017
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  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Both 1 & 2 are wrong in a Theological context. "Free will" has nothing to do with making decisions or making choices. Everybody makes decisions and makes choices every day. (This type of post is either a straw man to divert the discussion away from gross theological error or a monumental display of ignorance regarding the theological meaning of "free will.")

    "Free will" means that the will of a lost person is NOT in bondage to the Law of Sin and Death. And to say that is to contradict the bible. Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    To deny that the lost person is in bondage to the law of sin and death is to deny the need for a Savior to make us free from that bondage.
     
    #125 TCassidy, Aug 20, 2017
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  6. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Verse in Romans is quoting Psalm 14:2 which is describing the pagan nations surrounding Israel 3,000 years ago.

    The idea that no one seeks God is empiracly false as churches are full of people doing so every Sunday.

    The apostle Paul also disagrees with you.

    From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.
    Acts 17:26‭-‬27 NIV




    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
     
    #126 InTheLight, Aug 20, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  7. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    The verses you quoted from Acts 17 actually support Romans 3 that no one seeks God. My bet is you cannot possibly see how Paul is expressing himself in Acts 17 so that his quote in Romans 3 is perfectly in alignment.

    Notice how Paul states that God appointed times and boundaries. God does this and appoints who will seek Him and who will find Him. All of this is ordained by God.
     
    #127 MennoSota, Aug 20, 2017
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  8. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Laughable interpretation. Only in the mind of a Calvinist clinging to TULIP could someone say that a verse stating men seek God means that they don't actually seek him.

    I'll have to add this to my Calvinist Dictionary.

    Thank you.


    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
     
    #128 InTheLight, Aug 20, 2017
  9. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    You must live in deNile.
    It's apparently convenient for you to ignore Paul's discussion about God appointing times...
     
    #129 MennoSota, Aug 20, 2017
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  10. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Verse plainly says God placed people in locations and times so that they might seek him, perhaps reach out for him. Some translations say, "perhaps might grope for him and find him." Clearly God determined where and when these people lived. But they did the seeking based on this placement. Unless you think "perhaps grope" and "might find" is your definition of God determining something!

    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
     
    #130 InTheLight, Aug 20, 2017
  11. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    I'm not sure how you miss God's sovereign choice in these verses. Let me highlight so as to make it simple for you.

    ..."having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
    that they should seek God"...

    What about God determining do you fail to understand?
     
    #131 MennoSota, Aug 20, 2017
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  12. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I wish I had a Calvinist dictionary. Every term seems to mean something different to each Calvinist you discuss it with.
     
    #132 Reynolds, Aug 20, 2017
  13. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    I'm not sure how you miss God's sovereign choice in these verses. Let me highlight so as to make it simple for you.

    ..."having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
    that they should seek God"...

    What about God determining do you fail to understand?
     
    #133 MennoSota, Aug 20, 2017
  14. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Love can only exist in the arena of free will.

    God sticking his hand up your nose and working you like a puppet is not you loving God with all your heart, mind and soul.
     
    #134 utilyan, Aug 20, 2017
  15. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Where do you find that in the Bible oh philosopher of man?

    You are such a man-centered thinker, utilyan.
     
    #135 MennoSota, Aug 20, 2017
  16. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    You're butchering the verse. Is this the NLT you're quoting again?



    Why do you enjoy question begging?

    What part of "if", "perhaps", "might" expresses the idea that God determined something?

    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
     
    #136 InTheLight, Aug 20, 2017
  17. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    I quoted both NLT and ESV. Both emphasize God determining those who seek.
    You seem to either be naturally blind to what God is saying or openly defying what God is saying.
     
    #137 MennoSota, Aug 20, 2017
  18. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    No, you lack reading comprehension.

    If
    Might
    Perhaps

    Do not mean something was predetermined. It's very simple.

    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
     
    #138 InTheLight, Aug 20, 2017
  19. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I can PM you what I've got so far. Let me know.

    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
     
    #139 InTheLight, Aug 20, 2017
  20. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    ..."having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
    that they should seek God"...

    Where is the if, might or perhaps?

    Could it be that you want it to be a question so that you can claim sovereignty over God?
     
    #140 MennoSota, Aug 20, 2017
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