Partial Preterism and Futurism Continued

Thanks for restarting the thread.

Robocop's consistent argument is that history does not record all the AOD, etc prophecies in detail.

My counter argument concerning the fufilment during the destruction is that the believers fled the city about 3 /12 years before AD 70, thus they were not there to record the fulfilment. Their departure signifies the fulfilment of the Olivet prophecy.

 

The coming of the Son of man:

27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

 

From the other thread:

Much of the Bible is in figurative language - the infinite God is expressing his dealings with man in language that needs interpreting. As the Ethiopean put it:

Acts 8:30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?”
31 And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him.​

He clearly understood that what he was reading had a wonderful interpretation:

34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him.​

That must be our priority in understanding/interpreting OC prophecy. Jesus is the fulfilment of the Scriptures.

 

In Matthew 24, they asked Jesus what would be the sign of His return.

Daniel 9:“And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And thepeople of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”

Same verse, CURRENT English:“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

So we see the 'desolation' here is the destruction of Jerusalem itself, NOT the AOD..

There were some 8 months between Vaspasian's attack on jerusalem & the siege by Titus which finally conquered it. Thus, there was PLENTY of time between the sieges for people to flee. Now, we know Jesus' prophecies MUST come true EXACTLY AS WRITTEN in their original language, so that was NOT the final attack when the AOD will occur.

So, Josephus & tacitus' witnesses were playing a childrens' game of imagining the clouds to be whatever/whomever they imagined. WOW! What a joke!

Bottom line is this: THE GREAT SUPERNATURAL ESCHATOLOGICAL EVENTS HAVE SIMPLY NOT YET HAPPENED! there are NO events you can substitute for them!

The AOD will be when the antichrist enters the new temple the Jews will build in Jerusalem & proclaim himself to be God, Merely destroying the old temples was not it. The Babylonians destroyed the first temple as thoroughly as the Romans destroyed the 2nd one. But the AOD is clearly linked Scripturally to the "beast", the antichrist. he clearly has NOT YET COME.

And when he DOES come, the great trib won't be far behind his assuming full power, and the returna Jesus will be immediately after he ends the trib.

 

ALL of that is in the Future!

 

Jesus answered their questions, as he told them what was soon to come, and what would be His second coming event!

 

Actually, Sir, there were some 8 months between Vespasian's attack against Jerusalem and that of Titus, which conquered it. Thus, believers, or anyone else wanting to flee J then, had MONTHS, not just HOURS, to flee. Thus, those attacks were NOT the sign that "the end" was at hand.

What those events were , were part of the punishment which Jesus prophesied against that generation of Jews in Matt. 23. They received a much-greater punishment in 135-136 AD when Hadrian & Co. booted them outta their land entirely, giving it to the Philistianes, who'd remained loyal to Rome.

 

The coming of the "beast/antichrist" & his deputy the false prophet.
The "abomination of desolation".
The marka the beast.
The great trib.
The great cosmological disturbance immediately after the trib, in which Christ shall return.

 

And that event simply HASN'T YET HAPPENED!

And if the great trib has already occurred, then Jesus is 'WAY overdue!

TRUTH is - it aint happent yet!

 

Yes, Jesus is! And His prophecies are LITERAL!

Betcha can't point to ONE fulfilled prophecy Jesus made, that wasn't fulfilled LITERALLY.

He said J & the temple would be destroyed, the temple so thoroughly-destroyed that not one of its stones would be left upon another. And it cameta pass EXACTLY AS WRITTEN.( The Wailing Wall is NOT parta the temple, but of the wall that surrounded the whole complex.)

Jesus didn't say J would be rebuilt, but He implied it would be by prophesying it'd be trod underfoot by gentiles til their fullness had come in. So, J was obviously rebuilt, and is still being trod underfoot daily by gentiles.

Jesus said there'd be war & rumor of war, which there's been from shortly after that time thru now.

Jesus said there'd be persecutions of Christians with decapitations, and those have sharply increased under ISIS.

So, there's simply NO valid reason to deny the resta Jesus' prophecies will be fulfilled JUST-AS-LITERALLY, EXACTLY AS WRITTEN in the original Koine Greek.

 

HOW SILLY!

Jesus plainly talked about the AOD SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL. And I posted the verses from Daniel 9 showing that. Daniel said "The people of the prince who shall come shall destroy Jerusalem". Plainly, that was the Romans. And jesus was NOT a Roman. So, we must look for another prince of Roman descent. that covers a lotta ground, as there are descendants of Romans all over the world.

By the fact the new temple hasn't yet been built, not has the beast & his deputy the false prophet come yet.

I just reminded ya of what Daniel wrote. He said the PEOPLE OF THE PRINCE WHO IS TO COME shall destroy J.

And you know full well the Orthodox Jews of today don't believe Jesus is Messiah any more than the old Pharisees did.

You got a problem. YOU CANNOT PROVE THOSE EVENTS HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED! That's the bottom line!

OK, then, tell us the names of the beast & false prophet.

describe the marka the beast.

Awww, why go on? ya can't do it, & that's THAT! All you've provided is enough hot air to keep a fleet of balloons airborne.



do you read the OT? The bible is full of wonderful prophetic language, how many times has the bible said god came to defeat nations? let me ask you this,

MMRRPP ! WRONG !

it's about the day of Jesus' return.

No, the ignorance is imagining the clouds are anything but tiny water droplets.

You forget that Jesus' prophecies MUST be fulfilled EXACTLY, TO THE LETTER of their original writing in Koine Greek. Nothing else is their fulfillment.

The eschatological prophecies are NOT yet fulfilled, & you CANNOT prove otherwise. You CANNOT tell us the names of the beast & FP, tell us when all life in the seas died, when all green grass was burned up, etc. etc.during the great trib.

 

No, it's not. First, those weren't the last days, as is quite obvious, made so by the FACT that WE are here!

And JESUS HIMSELF described the same thing in Matt. 24 that'll happen just before His return:

Matt. 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Maybe YOUR Jesus wasn't a 100% accurate prophet, but MY SAVIOR, JESUS OF NAZARETH, is!

Again, PLEASE POST ONE PROPHECY Jesus made that, if it's already fulfilled, wasn't fulfilled EXACTLY, AS WRITTEN!

here are some that are fulfilled:

The destruction of J & the temple, so that not one stone of the temple was left upon another.
war & rumor of war
Jerusalem being trod underfoot by gentiles
Persecution of Christians with decapitations
Peter's denying Him three times
The preparation of the "Last Supper" and the availability of the donkey's colt for Him to ride
His own manner of death and His resurrection

Now, please tell other Baptists that Jesus wasn't a 100% accurate prophet! Your above statement would be considered blasphemous in many circles!

The antichrist's coming is prophesied by Daniel, Paul, and the angel who gave some of the Revelation to John. So, you say they were all wrong?

I have counted FIFTY Bible verses that mention the "beast/man of sin/antichrist" either directly or indirectly, & it's likely I missed a few. So, they were all wrong?

That's what SCRIPTURE sez, not robycop. To prove ME wrong, you hafta prove SCRIPTURE wrong!

they useta think the earth was flat, & "cured" migraines by trepanning, that is, cutting a hole in the skull to allow the "bad humours" to escape. But early church fathers were also looking for the antichrist and Jesus' return.

If history is on your side, then please tell us who the "beast" & his false prophet were, when all life in the seas died, what the marka the beast looked like, etc.

You should know full well that Messiah was "cut off" in the middle of the last 7 years, and events put on "hold" til the time of His return.

Different words. He likely heard it secondhand from another disciple.

The desolation of J was NOT the "abomination of desolation", which will be when the antichrist enters the temple which the Jews will build in Jerusalem, sets up his statue in it, & proclaims himself to be God, demanding to be worshipped. This is prophesied in both 2 Thess. 2 & Rev. 13.

I thought at first you had simply been deceived by some book or false preqacher you heard, but now I see you're completely sold-out to the words of man over the words of GOD. I shall keep praying that the HOLY SPIRIT will set your mind straight lest you lead someone else into your apostasy.

The likes of Gentry, Preston, Sproul, the jeezit Alcazar, etc. are purveyors of bunk.

Bottom line is, you can't prove a thing you say in favor of preterism.

 

Almost everyone else here believes preterism is phony as a Ford Corvette & won't do what they consider a waste of time fooling with it. however, as a dedicated fighter of false doctrines, I consider it my Christian D-U-T-Y to refute it.

 

You honestly don't expect Robocop to actually compare scripture with scripture and allow it to interpret itself, do you? Ain't gonna happen. He prefers fables over truth.

Zactly.

When You See Jerusalem Surrounded.....