The Good News about Hell

That is only one of several possibilities:

Thayer

G622

apollumi
Thayer Definition:
1) to destroy
1a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin 1b) render useless
1c) to kill
1d) to declare that one must be put to death
1e) metaphorically to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell
1f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed
2) to destroy
2a) to lose

Strong

G622
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Your example indicates you believe the lost are destroyed and then thrown in the Lake of Fire to be tortured. It is not the Lake of Fire that actually destroys in your view.

Here is an example of an unquenchable fire found in a prophecy that was fulfilled in 586BC:

Jer 17:27
"But if you will not heed Me to hallow the Sabbath day, such as not carrying a burden when entering the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day, then I will kindle a fire in its gates, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched." ' "

Is it still burning?

Isa 34:9Its streams shall be turned into pitch, And its dust into brimstone; Its land shall become burning pitch.
Isa 34:10It shall not be quenched night or day; Its smoke shall ascend forever. From generation to generation it shall lie waste; No one shall pass through it forever and ever.

Another example of an unquenched fire and forever ascending smoke. Sounds much like Revelation.

We can point out scriptures that would lead one to believe one side then the other. My problem is the fundamental question of does the lost man have immortalty. If yes, then you are correct. If no, then the conditionalist are correct.

Paul tells us when those in Christ put on immortality:

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

So when does the lost man put on immortality? Or is scripture silent on it?

How is immortality brought to man:

2ti 1:10but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

We have immortality because of Jesus. What if one rejects Jesus? Where does he receive his immortality?

Ro 2:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Again, is immortality conditional or a gift to all whether saved or lost?

Perhaps we need to find a common definition for immortality. Does immortality mean to exist forever? If so, then how and when does the lost man recieve immortality? Until I can find from scripture that the lost have immortality outside of Christ, annihilation/conditionalism remains a possibility.

 

If immortality does not exist for the unsaved man, then why would God even bother to resurrect their bodies? Why would they receive a new body? Why would not just their spirits be present at the Great White Throne Judgement? There is a reason that the unsaved at the Great White Throne Judgement stand before God with resurrected bodies. The bodies are immortal, just as the saved bodies are immortal. And they shall dwell with immortality in Hell.
DHK

 

Good questions. But what you are saying is there is immortality outside Christ.

 

That "Breath of life" God breathed into man and became a "living soul" will live as long as God lives.

Having "LIFE" can be a "Blessing or Curse", depending on where you spend "Eternity".

But either place you go, you'll live until "GOD DIES".

The "LIFE" of an unsaved person was "Worthless" to God, so in Hell, their life become "worthless" to them, they would rather "DIE" than continue to "live", but suicide isn't possible, the "TORMENT" of having to live when you'd rather be "DEAD" is part of HELL.

 

Of Course. That is what the Bible teaches.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

Does God die? The soul does:

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die .

Eze 18:20" The soul who sins shall die . The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

So there is no “DEATH”?


Joh 11:25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live .

You seem to say the lost man has the same promise. Though he die, he will also live.

Joh 8:51"Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death."

But you say if one doesn't keep His word they will also will never see death.

Joh 17:2"as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
Joh 17:3"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

But the lost man has life eternal as well doesn’t he?

Any scriptural basis?

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

So this applies to the lost as well as the saved? Who is the “brethren” Paul refers to, saved and lost? Does the “we” Paul speaks of also include the lost?


2ti 1:10but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

What death did Christ abolish? What life did He bring? Does God grant immortality to the saved through Christ and grant immortality to the lost in another way?

 

Here is a question for those who believe in the immortality of the soul. If everyone is already going to live forever, either in heaven, or hell, then why does the bible promise the believer eternal life over, and over, and over again? What is God trying to pull over our eyes? If we are already immortal, then He is really not offering us anything, but that which we already poses. Is God being deceitful, by offering us what we already have? Observe the following scriptures.

Mark 1029And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel’s, 30But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.


John 314And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 6Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.


John 10 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 17 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Romans 2 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God. 12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 5 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Timothy 6 12Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

19Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Titus 1 1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Titus 3 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 John 2 25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1 John 5 10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Matthew 19 29And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. 30But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

John 3 36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 4 14But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 5 24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6 27Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48I am that bread of life.

Galatians 6 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

1 Timothy 1 16Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.


Come on folks, this isn’t rocket science. Those who accept Jesus Christ are promised eternal life, as apposed to that which is the opposite of life, that is death, non existence. Punishment is by fire, but when it’s over, it’s over.


Ezekiel 28 18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Jude 1 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The truth is plain to see, for those who are looking for it. Sadly, many are not looking for the truth, but moreover, to have their ears tickled.

2 Timothy 4 1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

I misunderstood your statement, thinking that you were arguing that Christ only has immortality (a different context).

No, the lost has eternal death.

We need to come to a proper definiton of "death."
Death (in the Bible) is separation.

1. There is physical death.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
--When the body separates itself from the spirit it is dead. One is clinically dead when the brain ceases to function. I believe that the soul and spirit are in someway connected together. The soul is the seat of our emotions, and otherwise called the heart. Out of the heart proceeds: adulteries, fornications, etc., and the ability to reason these things out. In other words it is the mind. "Let this mind be in you which is also in Christ Jesus." When the spirit separates from the body it is dead. Death is separation.

2. There is spiritual separation.
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
--Paul writes to the Ephesian Christians here. He says that once you were dead, but now you are alive. How were they dead? They were spiritually dead. They were dead in that they were separated from God spiritually, by sin. They were unsaved. Sin separates us from God. This is spiritual death. You were dead, he says, but are now alive. You were separated from God, by sin, but are now made alive by the Holy Spirit. Spiritual death is separation from God in this life caused by sin.

3. There is eternal death.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Here Paul contrasts eternal life to eternal death. I believe it is a contrast and thus the adjective "eternal" is warranted or implied before "death."
Just as a saved person inherits eternal life; so an unsaved person inherits eternal death. In fact the Bible says that is what he deserves. It is his wage. Eternal death is separation from God for all eternity. It starts here in a place called Hell, but utlimatetly the unsaved will face the Second Death, the last death spoken of in the Bible. Either way, he is separated from God for all eternity because of his choice to reject God's Son as his Saviuor. Either Christ will be your Saviour now; or your judge in the future. Death is separation, in this case eternal separation.

4. Then finally the Second Death.
Revelation 20:14-15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
--This the final sentencing of the unsaved. They have already been given a death sentence of eternal death. Now the Lord hands out the final sentence and banishes them to the Lake of fire where they shall be "tormented day and night forever and ever." This eternal death is an eternal separation from God. Death is separation.
DHK

 

I agree the lost are eternally separated from God. But you still have the lost man with immortality. Where did he get it, from Christ?

What "death" do you believe is meant in this passage?

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

 

I agree the lost are eternally separated from God. But you still have the lost man with immortality. Where did he get it, from Christ?

What "death" do you believe is meant in this passage?

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die </font>[/QUOTE]To die means to be separated, not annihiliated, as I have just shown.
His immortal body was given him at the secomd resurrection? Why would God resurrect a body if not to give it immortality? That is the whole point of the resurrection--whether of the just or of the unjust. They too receive an immortal body. Would God raise up a corrupted decayed body to stand before him in Judgement. That is impossible, Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and I would dare say that flesh and blood, as it is today cannot stand before God. No man can see God and live. One must have a resurrected (glorified) body to do so. Remember they shall look upon God in judgement and live. Thus their resurrected body will possess immortality, and they will live with it in eternal death or separation from God in the Lake of Fire.
DHK

 

Speaking of the righteous - in the future - at the resurrection

1 Cor 15 "This MORTAL must put on Immortality" this is the only context where you see mankind given "immortality"..

Never do you see that said of the wicked.

In Christ,

Bob

 

The only good news about hell is, we don't have to go there. Everything else about hell is bad. And to assume that people will reject Christ because they hate God for creating hell is too far off the chart to even count. One preacher once said that if you emptied out hell and gave everyone there a second chance, they would still reject Christ.

 

In Rev 14:10 we are told that ALL those IN THE PRESENCE of the Lamb and of His Angels will be joined by the wicked who suffer their horrible torment IN THE PRESENCE of the Lamb AND of His Holy ones.

This means you will SEE the writing agony of your precious sons and daughters that did not make it to heaven for Rev 14 STARTS by telling us of the saints who are ALWAYS with the Lamb WHEREVER He goes!!

So here we have this horrible picture of the 2nd death, fire and brimstone and writhing torment and agony IN THE PRESENCE of the LAMB - SEEN by the Saints (as even Johnathan Edwards confesses) -- and "yet" the comment above seems to say "well that's not so bad if it does not continue in screaming agony without end")

!!! Where do those ideas of "that's not so bad come from"??!!!! ONE WEEK of such a scarring experience would not only be "too bad" for the wicked - it would ALSO be "too bad" for the loved ones in heaven - the saints who must SEE their own suffer in such a continual way. TWO WEEKS let alone a month, a year, 10 years, eternity!

Why is this "not too bad" idea so easy to slip into?

In Christ,

Bob

 

Claudia said: Secondly, there was a man who was a co-worker with my husband. This man was a Christian, who had gone often to the psychiatrist because he was absolutely terrified at the thought that God would torture him eternally in hell for his sins. Every time I saw him, he was chain-smoking, his hands shook, he was a nervous wreck of a man. I have known people who this false doctrine of eternally burning hell has driven to madness. Which is especially "BAD NEWS" since it is a lie... a terrible LIE about God, who is love.

Tam says: The problem here is that the man was not saved. If he was saved, truly saved, he would not be afraid because he would know that when he dies, he would go directly to be with Jesus.

Your idea of soul sleep, blah blah blah, has nothing to do with burning forever in hell. Even IF (and I did say IF)we do just sleep until Jesus wakes us up, eternity still means eternity.

That is one reason to be saved, so that we will spend eternity with Jesus.

True, God is a God of love, and he doesn't want any to miss heaven. But if people don't accept Him and live for Him, thats not Gods fault!!

Why you cannot see this is beyond me. Are you so blind that you won't ever understand the truth about this subject???

Use your brain, think about it. Pray, and ask God to show you. Don't just keep posting blather from some web site. PLEASE!!!

May God enlighten you. Don't take other peoples word for it. Read it yourself.



Tam

 

In matt 10 Christ said that God is the one that "DESTROYS BOTH body and Soul in hell fire" whereas man can only "DESTROY the BODY but NOT the soul".

I believe it.

In Rev 14 Christ says that all the suffering and torment of the wicked takes place IN THE PRESENCE of the LAMB AND of the Angels after FIRST pointing out that the SAINTS are IN the PRESENCE of the LAMB "With The LAMB" wherever He goes.

So that means we will ALL be there to see the whole painful ordeal of that DESTRUCTION of both BODY AND SOUL!

In Christ,

Bob

 

If I spill coffee on my computer it may destoy it, but it doesn't it annihiliate it. Wake up and smell the coffee!! Destroy does not mean annihilate. It simply means to render inoperable, as often some computers are, especially outdated ones.
I have a stereo sitting in front of me. It just quit operatng today. The law of Seocnd Thermodyanmics set in. I can see the thing. It looks ok from here. But it has served its time. It doesn't work. It is destroyed, not annihilated.
DHK

 

What's this world coming to??

I agree with DHK again!!

"Destroy does not mean annihilate"!!

Amen!!



Peace,

Tam

 

Main Entry:de£stroy
Pronunciation:di-*str*i, d*-
Function:verb
Etymology:Middle English, from Anglo-French destroy-, destrui-, stem of destrure, from Vulgar Latin *destrugere, alteration of Latin destruere, from de- + struere to build — more at STRUCTURE
Date:13th century

transitive verb
1 : to ruin the structure, organic existence, or condition of *destroyed the files*; also : to ruin as if by tearing to shreds *their reputation was destroyed*
2 a : to put out of existence : KILL *destroy an injured horse* b : NEUTRALIZE *the moon destroys the light of the stars* c : ANNIHILATE, VANQUISH *armies had been crippled but not destroyed — W. L. Shirer*
intransitive verb : to cause destruction