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You can be a Christian and deny essential doctrine

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, Nov 6, 2017.

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  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Scripture?
     
    #161 TCassidy, Nov 17, 2017
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Post the passage and we can go through it.
     
    #162 JonC, Nov 17, 2017
  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps it is something from this?

    https://www.crossway.org/tracts/paid-in-full-2802/

    or from here:
    (I removed this because it seems to be linked to the Garner Ted Armstrong group.)

    anyone ever been penalized for being paid a wage?
     
    #163 agedman, Nov 17, 2017
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Isaiah 53:3-10
    Clearly the prophet is foretelling here under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that the coming Messiah will die in the stead of the people of God, taking on their sin debt/penalty, and would be crushed/bruised/wounded for our sake, but taking the very wrath of God due to us as lost sinners!
     
    #164 Yeshua1, Nov 17, 2017
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    How about this example:

    A man stands on trial for murder. He is found guilty of the crime but has repented and turned from crime. The judge sentences the man to death as required by the law, but then tells the officer to release the prisoner. He steps down and takes the punishment himself, satisfying the demands of the law while having mercy on the guilty.

    And the families of the children slaughtered by the man rejoice because this justice glorifies the judge as just and righteous.

    Retributive justice just does not work. I understand why Calvin articulated the Atonement within that context, and I can even understand why we do today. But I can't for the life of me understand how we could be blind to the fact it is not actually stated in the Bible.
     
    #165 JonC, Nov 17, 2017
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    See # 164
     
    #166 Yeshua1, Nov 17, 2017
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Unless you believe that the punishment the lost will experience at Judgment is to be beaten and nailed to a cross by their fellow countrymen your argument is void.

    You are assuming that God was being wrathful to Jesus by punishing Him with what the lost will experience at Judgment. Isaiah does not state this and nowhere (until late in history) did the Church interpret it this way.
     
    #167 JonC, Nov 17, 2017
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God was NOT wrathful towards Jesus due to Jesus doing sinning, but God WAS indeed pouring out the wrath on Jesus, as He was taking upon Himself all that meant while bearing sin on the Cross!

    ECF saw it that way, many of them, as have many reformers and others....
     
    #168 Yeshua1, Nov 17, 2017
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I didn't say "due to Jesus doing sinning". The point is that nowhere in Scripture does God appear as being wrathful towards Christ (God was pleased to crush him, to offer him as a guilt offering....BUT he is eternally God's beloved and God's righteous).
     
    #169 JonC, Nov 17, 2017
  10. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Difference between belief and blood concerning the final estate:

    If the wrath of God in the final judgement is based upon sins, then there would of necessary be and end to the punishment. For that is most certainly the terms of justice when using retributive system thinking. Such resolves to the RCC, Mormons, and others who project that eternal flames are have some type of retributive purifying effect that one day all end up in heaven.

    However, if the wrath of God in the final judgement is based upon unbelief, there is no finality to the torment, but forever.
     
    #170 agedman, Nov 17, 2017
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  11. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    This thread is closed.
     
    #171 Squire Robertsson, Nov 17, 2017
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