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Featured What Is "Literal"?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Dec 16, 2017.

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  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    From the Merriam-webster Dictionary)

    LITERAL - (1.) : adhering to fact or to the ordinary construction or primary meaning of a term or expression : actual


    (2.) : free from exaggeration or embellishment
     
    #21 robycop3, Dec 20, 2017
  2. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The KJV is NOT free of goofs, booboos, exaggerations, or embellishments.
     
    #22 robycop3, Dec 20, 2017
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  3. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    No doubt many mainline leaders are supporters of such nonsense. However, while I do not agree every interpretation of ἀδελφοί in the CSB or NIV, I do not think they have sinister motivation. The reverse is true of other translations. Many of times the NASB, NKJV, and ESV render "brothers", when ἀδελφοί is refering to men and women. ESV will even footnote it as such.

    Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
     
    #23 McCree79, Dec 20, 2017
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I am not saying that they did, but just happens at times they seemed to be in agreement with that based on how they translated passages.
     
    #24 Yeshua1, Dec 20, 2017
  5. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    The statement was specific on two points.

    1) being lead into error by assumption that permission is given when the original does not support that permission. For example women in leadership by translating Acts 15 “brethren” to include women (as shown in a previous post and validated by others who remain far more acute in the language then me.


    2) The leadership of the Church being presented as including genders not shown as Scriptural in other areas. (Again, the Act reference).

    Because “children” is a problem and can be considered heritage (again relying on poor recall) as does “son,” there may not be an issue.

    Ultimately, when gender specific is warranted, both the KJV as well as NASB seem to give accurate accounting. Frankly, I just am not real impressed with some modern popular translations. But, I am ancient and biased.

    Perhaps, because you are at this time far more skilled and acute in the languages (as I have seen your work in other threads), if I am in error, I submit to your authority in this matter.
     
    #25 agedman, Dec 20, 2017
  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I liked your post, but have this set of questions.

    Why does there need to be a choice?

    Cannot a translation serve as authoritative both in the church and the classroom?

    Should not the “primary focus” of the translators be to render without bias, political influence, and present what is authentically accurate - to the end that it may stand the test of both classroom and assembly?

    Is there a translation that actually does meet that standard?

    If so, why the over abundance (in my opinion) of the popular?
    Is the motivation to market the gospel for profit?
     
    #26 agedman, Dec 20, 2017
  7. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Here are some examples where the Geneva Bible and the NKJV have a gender specific term, likely in agreement with the original-language texts, but the KJV may not.

    Gen. 36:23 sons (Geneva, NKJV) children (KJV)
    Gen. 36:24 sons (Geneva, NKJV) children (KJV)
    Gen. 36:26 the sons (Geneva, NKJV) the children (KJV)
    Gen. 36:27 sons (Geneva, NKJV) children (KJV)
    Gen. 36:28 sons (Geneva, NKJV) children (KJV)

    Exod. 13:13 among thy sons (Geneva) among thy children (KJV) among your sons (NKJV)
    Exod. 13:15 the firstborn of my sons (Geneva, NKJV) the firstborn of my children (KJV)

    Num. 24:17 all the sons (Geneva, NKJV) all the children (KJV)
    Num. 26:18 sons of Gad (Geneva, NKJV) children of Gad (KJV)
    Num. 26:44 sons of Asher (Geneva, NKJV) children of Asher (KJV)

    Josh. 5:3 circumcised the sons of Israel (Geneva, NKJV) circumcised the children of Israel (KJV)
    Josh. 5:7 their sons (Geneva, NKJV) their children (KJV)

    Jud. 20:13 wicked men (Geneva) men, the children of Belial (KJV) perverted men (NKJV)

    1 Kings 3:19 woman’s son (Geneva, NKJV) woman’s child (KJV)
    1 Kings 3:20 laid him (Geneva, NKJV) laid it (KJV)
    1 Kings 3:21 give my son suck (Geneva) give my child suck (KJV) nurse my son (NKJV)
    1 Kings 3:27 him (Geneva, NKJV) it (KJV)

    2 Kings 4:14 no son (Geneva, NKJV) no child (KJV)
    2 Chron. 33:6 sons (Geneva, NKJV) children (KJV)

    Ezra 2:42 The sons (Geneva, NKJV) The children (KJV)
    Ezra 2:43 sons of Ziha (Geneva, NKJV) children of Ziha (KJV)
    Ezra 2:44 sons of Keros (Geneva, NKJV) children of Keros (KJV)
    Ezra 2:46 sons of Hagab (Geneva, NKJV) children of Hagab (KJV)
    Ezra 2:61 sons of the priests (Geneva, NKJV) children of the priests (KJV)

    Neh. 7:8 sons of Parosh (Geneva, NKJV) children of Parosh (KJV)
    Neh. 7:10 sons of Arah (Geneva, NKJV) children of Arah (KJV)
    Neh. 7:16 sons of Bebai (Geneva, NKJV) children of Bebai (KJV)
    Neh. 7:59 sons of Amon (Geneva, NKJV) children of Amon (KJV)
     
    #27 Logos1560, Dec 20, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
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  8. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I recall that the Geneva was preferred over the KJV for a time.

    At one time, I would troll through what I had of Tyndale and work from that. Now it is online. He was so scholarly.


    In the above list, how does the NASB do?
     
    #28 agedman, Dec 20, 2017
  9. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

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    Do you think it possible that I might stumble onto something that hasn't been discussed in fine detail less than 3 dozen times? If you think that might be the case then say so and I'll stop in more often. I wish that were the situation.
     
    #29 thomas15, Dec 20, 2017
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  10. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    He's waiting for the time that he can throw it in the trash. So he indeed is foolishly condemning the entire work.
     
    #30 Rippon, Dec 20, 2017
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  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    You poor delusional fellow.
     
    #31 Rippon, Dec 20, 2017
  12. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    In my copy of The Challenge Of Bible Translation there is an introduction and overview chapter by Glen G. Scorgie.

    Some folks prefer a word-for-word translation."Translations produced in this fashion are naively thought to retain all the precious words, except that they are just in a different code now. The inclination is to assume that in every language there is a template of more or less exact equivalents to the inspired Hebrew and Greek words with which we started out. This is, of course, not the case at all." (p.23)

    "When translators are, fairly or unfairly, suspected or accused of ulterior motives or deliberate distortion, there is a crisis of confidence. The current debates in the church over translational integrity requires that thoughtful clergy and laity gain information about what is going on the field so they can determine for themselves where their confidence should be prooperly placed. The literature on translation (and Bible translation in particular) is substantial, but it is for the most part written for specialists and practitioners." (p.23)
     
    #32 Rippon, Dec 21, 2017
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You deny tat some in the church want to have women set up as pastors, and want to get away from masculine references to God?
     
    #33 Yeshua1, Dec 21, 2017
  14. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    That's not what you said in your post that I quoted. You had said "there does seem to be in some circles this desire to rewrite the scriptures in order to accommodate current/modern views on gender roles."

    You are redefining the word Church. Just what specifically are you addressing? You want to believe that a certain translation or translations support the idea of women pastors? Identify with supporting evidence --no links. Do your own homework. You have a history here and on other forums of making completely baseless claims and never manning up with proof.
    Your charge is so absurd. Before you make a charge as ridiculous as that --you need to know what you are talking about. You do not.

    In your earlier quote you had said "and to get away from [sic] 'masculine biased' Bible!"

    No translation should be biased. Did you mean based? What in the world is a masculine-based Bible? I think that's a new philosophy --from the early 21st century.
     
    #34 Rippon, Dec 22, 2017
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The 2011 Revision of the NIV

    Under the real reason for the revision!
     
    #35 Yeshua1, Dec 23, 2017
  16. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Read with understanding. Follow directions. Change your ways.
     
    #36 Rippon, Dec 24, 2017
  17. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    You are into evasion. I'm calling you on it. Tell me what translations indicate that women should be pastors. And if you find such a version spell out the passages. I say you are peddling the same old false charges that you have been doling out for years with never an acknowledgement that you are engaging in complete falsehood.
    Absolutely FALSE and you know it. If you are a believer you should never lie about such a thing.

    Change your ways.
     
    #37 Rippon, Dec 25, 2017
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  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    What churches? Apostate churches without sound doctrine?
     
    #38 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 25, 2017
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    See the Bible researcher link!
     
    #39 Yeshua1, Dec 26, 2017
  20. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Read the above and do what I have said Y-1.
     
    #40 Rippon, Dec 26, 2017
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