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Featured I Believe in the Doctrine of Total Depravity,

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God has His Will, which is always done as he determines it.
    Like you stated, sinners are restricted by being bound to a sinful nature.
     
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  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    No wait -- you are Calvinist - that means you have no idea what free will is - by definition. (At least that is the way that Calvinists seem to be playing that game lately)

    And of course you did not answer the question in the post you quoted -- proving the conclusion I draw must be true.
     
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Can't read either, huh? Have your mommy read the thread to you and explain the big words.
     
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  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Until you think about it. Free will means that the person has the ability to choose one way or the other and that there is nothing to stop them from choosing one way or the other. Specifically no overarching force that dictates their decision
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear that.
     
  6. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Bob, you may believe me or not, but the OP is correctly worded. My mind can always be changed on any subject, if and when I am sufficiently convinced that I am wrong.

    On some topics that I haven't given too much thought to, that might not take much, but on topics that I have spent much time and study on, it will take much more.
     
    #26 thatbrian, Mar 17, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
  7. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Total Depravity.......Mankind's divine act of PERFECTLY choosing what is wrong better then God can choose what is right.
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    So then you are open to evidence? Objectivity? Free will - rather than predestined to ignore all the evidence posted?

    In any case - I don't think this is a good thread to point to the flaw in your position since technically both Arminians and Calvinists accept the doctrine of depravity of the sinful nature.

    Where "total depravity" totally fails is in the Bible texts that speak of the wicked 'hardening their heart'. You cannot "harden" something that is already "totally hardened".

    So then if the term only means "predisposed to choose evil on at least some point" -- then we all basically agree that this is what the sinful nature does to mankind - and that the Romans 3 description of it is accurate.
     
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  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    I don't think either Arminians or Calvinists are arguing that the supernatural drawing of God is insufficient to overcome the disabled "Choice for the Gospel" that depravity would normally disable.
     
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  10. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    Yes, and both Classical Arminians and Calvinists agree on human inability apart from Divine Grace. And that this inability is a moral inability /ie enslaving love of sin. There is indeed a need of a radical work of Grace before we can even believe. There is definitely a "heart change" that inclines us to believe where before we had no such real inclination. I do not accept the whole package of Calvinism (I'm still examining parts of it), but I strongly believe in the doctrine of "moral inability"
     
    #30 glad4mercy, Mar 23, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
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  11. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    deleted
     
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